From Turmoil to Transformation: A Father’s Path Through Divorce, Grief, and Healing

In this episode of The Real Family Eats, host Reesa sits down with JP, a single father, to discuss co-parenting, personal growth, and a special family dessert recipe. JP shares his honest journey through divorce, healing old wounds, and redefining what it means to be a dad.

• The challenges and realities of co-parenting after a breakup, especially from a father's perspective
• How childhood trauma and family patterns shape adult relationships and parenting
• JP’s step-by-step process for emotional healing, communication, and setting boundaries
• The impact of loss and grief on personal transformation and parenting style
• A simple, beloved family dessert recipe that’s both versatile and meaningful

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From JP: 

42 year old Single Girl Dad to a 10 year old. I'm a healthy co-parenting relationship.

Connect with JP: 

https://www.instagram.com/jpmrsh?igsh=Ym1lbmZzMGJvNXk1

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Recipe shared courtesy of:

https://www.kimscravings.com/chocolate-delight/

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

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For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

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Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

0:00

When everything was chaotic around me is when my nervous system was calm and I felt safe, even knowing the whole, you know, my whole life is going to go to shit Hey Everyone, thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on The Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. Welcome back everybody. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm excited for today's episode. We have JP joining us. Hi JP Thank you so much for being a guest on The Real Family Eats. Hi. Thanks for having me. It's, it's pleasure to be here. Yes. So I am so excited to hear a little bit about your story and your recipe. Of course. But before we get started, for anybody who doesn't know you, can you introduce yourself for us? Yeah. I am a 42 year old single father to a ten year old girl and I've been doing the co-parenting thing for about eight years. You know, eight years and a little bit of change. We split up right after she turned to. And then, you know, we had the normal fighting conflict, you know, hurt feelings, all that stuff for a good year and a half, probably, you know, close to two years before it. Started changing or, you know, finished changing. Most of it was me working on myself and going through my childhood baggage and traumas and this and that, and learning how to communicate better and get out of my own way and, you know, sort of process all the grief that I was kind of dealing with at the same time. Okay. So then the bedroom I got in all these things, then the easier it got. But obviously it still takes time because I she heard me say it out different. I've changed and all these different things for different parts of our relationship. And you know, all these, you know, so it takes a while for it to sink in and then that growing up in and around the AA system from childhood, you know, my dad quit drinking when I was young, there were sponsors. And so, okay, the community and having somebody that's a little further ahead of you on the journey, you know, no matter what it is, whether it's business coach, you know, nutrition coach, personal finance, personal fitness, any of these different things. If you want to flex time, avoid booby traps, change your mindset, change your reality and all these different things and be held accountable, especially when I worked with people, found communities, coaches and this. So when I was dealing with the high conflict and everything, and then it kind of evolved into me doing the same thing for other people, especially dads, because we taught not to ask for help and not to have any problems. And, you know, suck it up and deal with it, all that kind of stuff. And it's it's starting to have change. But and I it's, it's, it's a passion subject for me. And it's a passion kind of deal for me. And it's, it's one of those deals where, you know, I'm seeing the dance side here in the dance side, getting some empathy for the fathers who are not only not able to, you know, that it's a big shockwave for the dance because typically the dance moves out and they lose the kids. And so you go from having every night with your kids to six, eight days a month. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's a I'm sure everybody else deals with you having to leave the house and the break up and all that stuff. But you lost your home, you lost your wife, you lost your kids, you lost everything. And there's not a lot of empathy or, you know, care for the for the guys. It seems. Yeah. And that I honestly, I gotta be honest with you, I'm so, so thankful for you being willing to even come and talk about some of the dads side of things, because I absolutely agree with you, and I'm so onboard with that passion. As far as just really creating, a space, of change when it comes to, to men and emotions and, you know, I see I have two sons of my own, so if anything, it's for hopefully for their future too. And so I'm so excited to kind of talk a little bit more about that with you. Before we kind of jump all the way in. Tell us, what recipe are you sharing with our audience today and why did you choose this one? Well, I mean, it's my I, you know, I grew up in a restaurant, my parents on a small restaurant, and the mom was a waitress, and this was my birthday cake. My, you know, this was the deal that made for, you know, certain people for their birthdays and fundraisers and these things and those things. And it's so easy. But it's different, you know what I mean? It's not a pie or a, you know, it's not a cream pie that you're having to try to do or pumpkin pie or, apple pie kind of deal where the crust is finicky. Or you might be able to, you know, some of these things that kind of fall apart if you don't know how to bake really well and you can you can make it is elaborate as you want or as simple as you want. And it's kind of you can play with it. I mean, this one. Is, you know, the one that you're making is a little bit different than the one my dad made because he used, you know, if you get double stuffed Oreos, crumbs, and then you add the butter to that and then to make that your crust is how he used to do it. Okay. You can also get the premade, you know, pie crust and make the same dessert and that and not have to worry about the crust at all and put it on the Oreo one, or put it on the graham cracker one and it and it be the same. It tastes just as good. So you can make it a pie. You can make it a big pan dish. I mean, it put some chocolate shavings on top after you're all done. If you want to make it look fancy for Thanksgiving or Christmas, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, I love it. And I love that. It sounds like it has such a special, place in your family's life. And so I appreciate you being willing to, to share that and let us into that, that world. So tell me, what or give me the overview of, the ingredients, the steps. I'll get assembling and mixing while we chat. And not a lot of ingredients. I mean, you just kind of whatever forum you want to be able to make it into squares, you know, you brown pan or cake pan or anything like that. You can use Oreos. The recipe that I'd say it has like a peak on from one. Or you can use graham cracker, you know, any kind of those chocolate or as healthy as you want with the crust. And then it's a cream cheese, you know, layer chocolate pudding layer, whipped cream layer. And that's pretty much it. I mean, it, but you can use it's versatile and I like it because you can use it and change it and mix it for whatever you like, because you can swap out the chocolate pudding for strawberry or lime or, you know, whatever flavors that you want. Yeah, as long as you match the bottom, it's pretty universal to whatever you whatever whatever fits for you to make it at any given time. Because it's mostly just pudding. Well, we like putting in our house, so I'm excited. I have never tried this particular kind of recipe, so I'm excited to jump in. For anybody who is watching and you're looking at at my dish, I, I've already done my crust layer and I've put my cream cheese in and like that kind of sat a little bit. So this is nice and chilled. So just so you're aware of kind of where I'm jumping in as far as, when I'm making it today. So while I do this, I love to talk a little bit more, really starting because I heard you mentioned in there that there's, there's a different side of when you're going through divorce and you're separating homes. And just from beginning part of of dad's commonly being the ones that are moving out and that are maybe on the limited schedule of seeing, seeing your children and what that like as a father to kind of go through that and what's going on for you in that moment. And, you know, I heard you mentioned kind of grief in there. Can you can you talk and start? Is there. Yeah. I mean, it's I got in my particular situation, I got extremely lucky because we were unmarried. So we're not wrapped into the system. We never got thrown into the money making court process. So there was no. Extra pressure and extra financial stuff and all of these extra things on the other side that I got really lucky on was, is my daughter's mother is close with her dad, and so I never was limited access with my daughter, you know what I mean? It was always my daughter comes and goes, even still comes and goes as she pleases. But we are adults and you know, same rules in both houses. She granted our second here. She's not playing us off each other. Can we talk? Discuss best for her? If she's in trouble, she's in trouble. Both places. But also my daughter's in a blended family now. We sit by each other at the school functions, the dance recitals, the sports stuff, and then barbecue and sometimes some holidays, depending on if everybody's in town isn't there. So, I mean, my situation has gotten to be really smooth and, and easy. Okay. But when you, you know, when you break up, go through the divorce process, starting the divorce process and or, or any of those things, I had a really hard time getting out of my own way and sort of grieving the relationship and letting it die, which I think is the hardest part for most everybody, because you want to really use all of these feelings and emotions as a crutch to either make yourself to make your self feel better for the situation, or to have somebody to blame. And I think it gets worse and a little bit when you get into the court process, because then you have lawyers, mediators, and you're feeding into this money machine that's masked by the guise of best interest of the children, right. And but when you get into this process, you know, a lot of the people I talk to and work with every day, you know, more times than not it was almost pretty civil until the lawyers got involved. And then it becomes finger pointing from both sides at the other side. And then you start getting mad or you know, you can build or it doesn't help you get over or through any of the unresolved anger or resentment or hurt feelings or all of these different things. And then, you know, from the dad's perspective and you, you basically lost everything. They tell you that it's either in the best interest of the kids or, you know, there's a lot of guys that I talk to that have, you know, quote unquote, week on, week off, 50, 50 custody of their kids, but they're still paying. Is I don't understand how they can say it's 5050 and you do week on week off and have equal time, but somebody's still paying you the person to babysit your kids instead of just giving you more time with your children. And then that causes, you know, that causes more resentment because you're you're paying money that you don't feel like you should be paying or you've lost in the court process, or your lawyer just straight up told you you're not going to win. So don't find any way. And it's just a lot of just gut punch is and and shots to the face over and over through the whole process that. The average guy just wants to be with his children, you know. And they're a lot of times, you know, you get six, eight days a month, you know, every other weekend. And then maybe, spring break in a month in the summer or something like that. Is is pretty typical. I it's so it's easy to, to hold on to all these emotions and then, you know, in my case. I was I would instantly get defensive. Like the biggest thing that I had to get over was myself. And I, you know, we kind of got into this routine where I would get a message through my nervous system of like, go into, you know, anxiety, anxious mode or, you know, fight or flight. And I react by saying something back. And then she would react by and it would go back and forth for, you know, a few days or a week until one or both of us had bottled up the back and forth enough to where one of us can, you know, push over the edge and, and turn into this. People fight over in the match on the phone or whatever the case may be. Yeah. And then the more that I healed from the baggage and all that hurt feelings and all these different things from the relationship, the easier it was to just stop reacting and start responding. And then it became easier to communicate because I wasn't talking back, or I wasn't feeling like I was being poked, because most of the time it was just me being the it's on the defensive, and it had nothing to do with anything that, you know, I it was the way I took it, not the way not what was being said. And so yeah, for me, I had to I had to actually get one of those little memo pad notebooks around with me all the time. And then I would get a text and you could feel yourself, you know, your heart rate go up and you get an, you know, you take it or whatever. And so I had to start writing in that. What I was going to say back. And then I would come back to it when I system came back down. And like nine times out of ten, like, that's not what I ended up sending back because I then had to train myself to stop snap responding, snap reacting, and start responding because I'd come back a couple hours later the next day or something like that. Read it the comments, and then I'd send an actual response as opposed to a post back, you know, unless it needed my attention. You know, quicker than that. But I mean, I had to train myself to stop. Giving the reaction maybe she was looking for or being easily defensive or letting my, you know, emotions cloud my better judgment on what I wanted to reply with or what I wanted to say back or anything like that. And, and, I mean, it was a process and it took a while, but training yourself to communicate differently and see them as a different person is usually the the first comment things you got to get through because if you're holding on to all this baggage and all of this trauma and all of these emotions, and it's hard to move forward in the reality that you're in because you're not with that person anymore. Yeah. And but if you keep communicating the same way you were at the end of your marriage, it's just going to keep revolving with the same sort of interactions. I mean, that makes a lot of sense, right? They're trying the same thing and expecting a different outcome. Yeah. And so I, I'm curious for you, because I heard you mention in there that you found them many times, kind of that reactivity was, was maybe rooted in that, that feeling of defensiveness. So and I heard you a couple times kind of mentioned some of some of your bags that you, you were carrying around and some seriously, what what was maybe coming up, what was your brain trying to convince you of that maybe led to, like you said, that path of of feeling defensive and feeling like I need to go to war. Can you say a little bit more about maybe what was the narrative, that you were working with? I mean, I up until that point and from, from childhood, I had been telling myself and following this narrative that I was a victim and it woe is me. She was always going to draw whether I was self-sabotaging myself or not. It was always something else, something external. It wasn't my fault. Even though I made the decision to be in this place, do these things and all these different things. And so I got into this, this habit or, or identity of, of being a victim or always thinking I was the victim or the blame game kind of deals and stuff like that. And so for me, I had to I had to. Backtrack, you know, once I started became aware and started doing different work on myself and had baggage sorting and trauma and all these different things, I had to figure out why she triggered me. And then it jumped back to somebody else in, you know, ten years before her. And then it went into like when I was in high school. And then it, you know, eventually I made my way all the way back to when I was, you know, akin. Yeah. And then had to fix that, heal that, you know, over that, you know, bullshit. And then jump up to where the next one where I felt like, you know, it kept me in that state or, you know, this girl friend in high school that that, so then I had to just let that go because, you know, I can't do anything about it now, you know, forgive them whatever I need to do to heal. And then it became, you know, accepting a lot of the things that I was doing in my 20s and early 30s, that kind of stuff that I needed to either take accountability for, forgive people for, forgive myself, or look at dejectedly and, and and realize that some circumstances are just circumstances. Nobody's maliciously trying to do these things to you. And then as I got better at self reflection, then I was able to start training myself how to be a better communicator and how to have difficult conversations without either feeling like I was attacked, or feeling like somebody was trying to scrutiny over or take advantage of me or, you know, because I mean, that was most of it is I, I had a lot of low self-worth and a lot of self-worth issues growing up and through my teenage years. And so I always felt like. I got people who were either abusive or takers or people that would, you know, railroad you around me and in my life because they knew they could, because I allowed them to, because that's how I felt like I deserved to be treated. And then it propelled them to, you know, all these other things. And so, I mean, it was a process. It took me a few years to get through a lot of it, but, you know, the bigger part of it was, was my childhood in trying to break generational curses and not. Be the same kind of parent to my daughter that my parents were, you know, and sort of raised in our loving household. It wasn't emotionally disconnected and trying to set her up the best I could for a successful future. And so if I wanted to change these things and her to be more equipped as a, you know, young adult than I was, then, I needed to add more tools to my toolbox. And so then it became. You know, working with people, getting outside opinions that had been through it. You know, it's not like I could go and get my mom's advice when she'd never been divorced and they didn't co-parent at all. So, I mean, being aware of who you're taking advice from in the in the information that you're bringing in was a big part of it, but that was part of the process of, you know, the more I could accept a lot of these things, easier it was to let go of a lot of these hurt feelings and issues and stuff, because I nobody was picking on me. Her mother wasn't doing these things maliciously to hurt me. And even if she was looking for a certain reaction, I was probably giving it to her because she knew that's how I was going to react. And so I had to change my reactions so that she'd stop looking for those reactions. And then it became easier to communicate and easier to communicate. Easier to communicate, because I was stuck in this mindset in the same mental space and emotional state mindset that I was at the end of the relationship, even knowing the relationship has been dead for a year and a half. And my new reality is she's a parent and I'm a parent and we're trying to raise a child as opposed to you heard me and all these other things that you can get wrapped up in and kind of dwell on for too long. Yeah. And it sounds like, if I'm hearing you correctly and let me know if I'm way off base here, is that for you? As you did some of your unpacking and your work on yourself and figuring out kind of maybe the origin of some of that defensiveness, that it sounds like it came from, maybe your brain's wave when you were a child. You know, this is this is the way to cope, because this is what helps keep us safe. Like, if I go into this space, it's happening to me. Because likely as a child, you know, we are we are helpless in this sense, and we don't have a ton of, resources, especially if it's coming from someone near and dear to us that, you know, society saying, hey, this is the person taking care of you, but imagine you're your brain is going, well, I've got to figure out how to survive somehow. And so if I if I go into this headspace in this particular narrative, that's a little bit easier to swallow than to swallow an idea of, I'm not worth this love or this care or this compassion. You know, that's a that's a really hard thing that to swallow. And so why on earth would our brain want to, like, lead us there? So instead, let's let's get this other narrative. This one's easier to swallow. Right. And so it sounds like from that, from that place of protection, it just kind of grew and became really good. It sounds like it going to that narrative. Right. Because again, that's that's something that's known and that has served you and protected you. Right. In other circumstances, am I hearing that correctly? Yeah. Well, it it did and it also, you know, not that, you know, it took me it took me well into my 30s to accept the fact that my parents did the best they could with the tools that they had and that they were more emotionally available and open than their parents were and did a better job than their parents. And you do the best you can with the knowledge and and the way that you're raised, unless you want to change it and be different and it was just an emotionally disconnected household. And so you really only got I was an easy kid. I have an older brother that's, you know, two years older than me. He demanded a lot of attention. And so the only way that you, you know, so I grew up with the forgotten child, middle child kind of syndrome as a, as a, as a kid. Okay. So the only, the only way you really got attention is if you were doing something wrong. And so then that happened. What does every kid say to their parents when you get caught doing something wrong? It wasn't me. It wasn't my fault. I didn't mean to, you know? And. And then it becomes a habit. That's just your reaction to anything that happens. Yeah. Because I've got 12, you know, 12, ten, 12 years of experience of every time, you know, this is when somebody notices me. Well, I don't want to, you know, get a spanking or be in trouble. So I didn't mean to. It wasn't my fault. And this is, you know, how it happened, and I just happened to be there. You know, whatever the case may be. And then. And then when I got about 15, you know, then it became my school party and a little bit and then alcohol became the biggest crutch I could use because I didn't have to be me, and I could be numb. And I didn't have to deal with the real world. But every time, every time trouble came around the corner, I, I could, you know, it was my fault. It's just, you know, everybody's doing it. I'm just the one that gets caught all the time. Or I'm the one that. Gets picked up by the police and, you know, knocks on your door to sign off deals. Or I can be dropped off at home and all these different things. Well, it's not my fault. We live in a small town and there's nothing else. You know what I mean? And then it just an excuse came for everything. Yeah. And I really appreciate you kind of bringing that to light, because I think, on a couple fronts. First of all, that many times, like you said, that our, our parents and even our parents aren't necessarily going into this journey going, how can I destroy my child's life like, I don't I don't think I've ever met any parent who would say that. That's the intent, right? It doesn't mean, like you said, that it's not necessarily something that ends up occurring for one reason or another, and that also for you kind of mentioning just that, that piece of it that for for you, it came from, like you said, that place of trying to, to figure out how, how do I get along in this world and how do I fit in. And and oftentimes I find that when, when we're talking about some of these maybe, I'm not as healthy kind of coping skills, right, that often they are coming from that place where our brain isn't going, how can I destroy myself or self-sabotage or, you know, hurt other people and we're not? I don't think that most people are going into it with that mentality, but rather, you know, I, I'm feeling unsafe in this moment and this particular thing helps me feel safe. And so our, our brains naturally want to keep us safe. I mean, it's that instinct, that survival instinct, right? Yeah. And it does. And then it would, you know, I looking back, it makes sense to me. And I had a conversation with somebody earlier today about, you know. Your comfort zone is your comfort zone, whether that's chaos or being an anxiety or being in an abusive relationship or being in toxic relationship or whatever the case may be, whatever your comfort zone is, until you do some sort of work or get through it. And, you know, looking back now and throughout, you know, my 20s, any time I every time something, you know, I felt the most uneasy and the most anxious when things in my life seem to be going really well, and I didn't have a big disruption. So I then I became anxious and I was waiting for it around the corner. And then typically I would subconsciously do something to blow it. Whatever I had going. Yeah, because I needed that chaos, something safe. I needed that that tension and I needed, you know, and so when everything was chaotic around me is when my nervous system was calm and I felt safe, even though the whole, you know, my whole life is going to go to shit, you know. And so and then it was on repeat, repeat, you know, every, you know, three, 4 or 5 years when I had, you know, I was doing well at my job or starting a business or had a decent relationship with somebody or my friends. And, you know, we were all thinking and driving and everything was going good. And no worries, no worries, no worries. And then it became like a deal where I'm sitting there waiting for the other shoe to drop and the waiting for the, you know, to step in that hole and something just to go wrong. And then most of the time I, I would kick a domino that that would make it do that. But I wouldn't know that I was, you know, I wouldn't necessarily know that I was doing that, but I wasn't, you know, able to. Get out of that state, you know. But you but when you're doing it, you don't even realize that you're doing it. Yeah, absolutely. And that makes a ton of sense. In fact, you know, I've, I've read even the studies, right, that when you're in that state of that higher level of cortisol for a long enough period of time, your body is like, you should kind of get used to that, okay. That's our baseline. So maybe our baseline empathize with lower. But then, you know we're in a constant state of chaos now your body goes okay well this is this is the the new baseline we need to eat in order to you. I can help to survive. And so when we find, like you said, maybe an environment that isn't as chaotic, our body, you know, tends to go, this doesn't feel great. I don't know this this this doesn't this doesn't feel safe. And so, I can absolutely appreciate that. Like you said, where there's almost, almost a comfort then in, in the chaos. Because at least I know the chaos. I know how to operate that versus the calm where, I haven't really been shown that calm is is safe. And so now I'm. I'm on edge. Right, right. So and you see it a lot with people who have you see it a lot. You know, with with people who had the nurtured or had, you know, chaotic relationships with their parents or watched their parents have chaotic relationships or in my case, my parents were, you know, my parents were essentially roommates from the time I can remember till I was like 17 years old. They didn't. I never saw in case they never said, I love you. But that was, you know, that was the norm, you know, and we would all go, you know, we didn't have a lot of money. Dad worked a lot. They worked a lot, all that stuff. But, you know, we take like two camping trips a year and everybody would go. But my parents never went on a date night, never went to on a vacation by themselves that my entire time, I mean all of these things. So this was my norm and it was a fairly chaotic place, you know, even though my dad got sober when I was, you know, 4 or 5 years old, his mentality and actions and everything else, I mean, it didn't matter, you know, there was no alcohol around, but everything else was the same for the most part. Okay. And so, you know, then in my 20s. The chaotic, toxic relationships felt safe. But when somebody was normal or, you know, emotionally intelligent or honest or able to express their wants, needs, boundaries, you know, feelings and all these different things that felt foreign to me. And so that would scare me and send me into like, I don't like this. And you see it a lot and you see it a lot with, you know, when you hear women talk about, I need the exciting guy, but I don't like the guy, that's the boring guy. You know, the fun because it's, you know, not normal to them, you know, and these things and you see it with in a lot of situations, you know, guys are the same way. You know, somebody who's grew up in a place where it's chaos and all these different things, and they meet somebody that, you know, was from I live in a rural area, you know, like a farmer's daughter where they go to church as a family every Sunday. And, you know, everybody, you know, like and it just feels foreign to me, like me and my daughter's mother were together. They have a close family. So they're all together on every holiday. And they do like dinners and all these different things. And it's like I couldn't get used to it, but I hadn't done any sort of work or healing. But it was so, you know, everybody being calm and just, you know, getting along for the most part, you know, as much as families do. But doing all these things together and, you know, birthdays and all these things are a big family event that was foreign to me, you know, yeah. And so I'm curious, like you said, with all of that being being foreign and, and even it sounds like kind of that emotional vulnerability being just a big no no at this point. Right. How how was that for you, especially at the beginning of your journey when you're you're trying to kind of maybe open these things, open wounds that maybe have been there for, who knows how long, which require, I imagine, you know, a degree of vulnerability and maybe even honesty with yourself. What that means to kind of go through that and, and, you know, were there barriers that you found yourself kind of coming up against that you had to work through? Yeah. I mean, I the more I learned about, you know, trauma from different books, I got really into, to, paying attention and being aware. I started doing mindfulness training and being aware and practice, you know, training your mind to not control your thoughts, but not get wrapped in your thoughts at the same time and all that stuff. And then I read books on, you know, the importance of habits. The small wins, the mental shifts, the, internal dialogs. Processing trauma and grief and, you know, some of it was extremely uncomfortable. Parts of it was extremely lonely and isolating. Okay. And it goes it, you know, if you don't like yourself, it's really hard to be alone, but it's really hard to be a good person or good for the people around you. If you don't like yourself and you can't be alone, like, now I'm, I'm I'm alone, but I'm not lonely. Before I was lonely. So I tried to fill this void. Whether it be, you know, alcohol or people or fake friends or going to the, you know, going to the bar would fill that hole for a certain amount of time because there's people around and, you know, because you were down there all the time, just like them and all these different things. And so you were constantly doing all these things to try to not have to be yourself, not have to do it yourself. But even so, it takes a it's really uncomfortable and it's it's a process and it's hard to take a look at yourself, you know, and then you start identifying your triggers and then you start figuring out why they're triggers and why you react this way. And you can map out how you're sabotaging yourself and doing these things. And it's and it's uncomfortable. And then as you grow, you sort of. Find yourself in this limbo for however long, depending on how hard the work is, how much you're actually doing in this, that because you're not the person that you were, so you don't really have anything in common with the people that you used to interact with all the time. And when you become aware, you become aware of everything. And so you notice things that you didn't notice before. So maybe this childhood friend is a shitty parent, and you don't necessarily want to be around that kind of person anymore. So now you got to distance yourself from the people who drink if you don't want to drink, and people that are toxic. If you don't want toxic people in your life because you you start to figure out who gives you energy and who drains you and all of these different things, but you're not quite healed enough to be on the level of all the people that you're going to be surrounding yourself with and interacting with. You know, it'd be like having somebody that's in the midway of their fitness journey. You're not in the beginner class anymore, but you're not quite with the people that are working out five days a week or whatever. So you're kind of in the middle and it and it, but that's where the coaches and the therapists and the communities of people that are in the same kinds of situations are dealing with the same sorts of, you know, mindsets and external problems because just like your diet or just like fitness or just like business or just like anything else, you're you may go 3 or 4 steps forward and feel really great, but then you might take six, five, six steps backwards or, you know, sideways and the plateaus and the ups and downs. It's it's it's it's isolating if you're trying to do it all by yourself and it's, it's time consuming. Yeah. And I imagine, like you said, if you're in that space where you're starting to become more aware of maybe even other people's behaviors and, and going, if I want to make this change, it might also come with distancing myself from from these people. And I imagine that in itself could be a really scary barrier for people to want to do that change. Because again, now I'm letting go of these people and maybe it turns out to be most everyone that I'm currently surrounding myself. Right. And that's that's scary, right? Because in I mean, it is, but anytime that you're getting out of your comfort zone and making changes, it's always going to be scary. It's whether or not you can. Keep going and do the small things and keep changing your habits and keep doing these things because you know, I you're growing and you're outgrowing people and you're growing into somebody and all of these things. And then, you know, especially with the people that I talk to and the guys and girls and ladies that I work with and that kind of stuff. And it's like, well, I can't outgrow the other parents, you know, we're connected. We have to communicate, you know, and it's like fair, you know? But you, you know, where they're always calling me and, you know, venting or talk to, you know, dumping on on me with stuff that doesn't have to do with our kids or, you know, whatever. It's like the thing you need to start making boundaries. Like, this is not my business problem and something that I, you know, need you don't need to be telling me, you know, I we can be friendly, but I don't need to know about your problems with your significant other. You know what I mean? Like, this is not my business, and I don't need I don't, you know, if you need a therapist and go, but I don't. I'm not it. You know what I mean? I know the weird history in this that. But a lot of people, you know, so it's it's understanding the people that are draining you compared to the people that, you know, give you energy. And so even if it's family, you know, if you say your mom is overbearing and every time you talk to her and she calls you every day and every day and every time you go on the phone, you're exhausted and you're like, feel shitty about yourself because everything's a problem. And, you know, you get to take a part. Every, you know, aspect of your life is getting picked apart, and it's like, you get it wrong and you love me, you love someone, but maybe you don't need to talk to her every day. Yeah, maybe talk to her on Sundays, Sunday, early on Sunday so you can rest the rest of the day and you don't have to take. You don't have to be drained all week instead of having five 30 minute conversations a week. Maybe you just have one hour, one on Sundays or an hour and a half. And if it's really bad, you know, every other week once more, you know, nobody says that you have to be this worn out, burned out entity run walking around because everybody's uses you as their emotional toxic waste or makes you feel bad about yourself or drains you, you know, drains your energy. Because if you have no energy, then you're not good for anybody, especially your kids. Yeah, and I love that you pointed that out, because I hear that commonly as a retort when we talk about, like you said, kind of setting some of those boundaries, it's, oh, well, does that make me a bad person or, you know, am I selfish or all these kind of, you know, the propensity right to, to go inner critic on herself, right? Right. Versus being able to maybe zoom out and say, gosh, if, if I can draw this boundary and maybe set some limits with that, you know, I can still love them, but not necessarily have to take on some of those behaviors or take on their bad day. Right? Right. What does that free me up to do in as far as being the parent and showing up and being maybe the partner that I want to be, the parent that I want to be. Right? Or just show up for me. Right? Right. I mean, there's a reason that when you get on an airplane, they tell you to put your mask on first. Yeah. And and your energy, your life and everything around you is the exact same way I. If you talk to somebody

at 2: 42:28

00 every afternoon and they drink it and they make you feel shitty about yourself, whether it's a friend or family or whatever, you're you're the parent. It doesn't matter. And it exhausts you or puts you in a bad mood every time it makes you feel shitty about yourself. And then you go pick your kids up at 3 p.m. and how good, I mean, how good are your kids when you're picking them up from school? You know, you're sitting there like you're probably sitting there pissed off or, you know, half in tears or depressed or worn out or ready for a nap or whatever the case may be, instead of being like, you know, I doubt you're even asking them how their day was, what they learned in school, you know what I mean? And then it's just come home. You're tired, so then you're going to order fast food or pizza or pick something up on the way home because you don't have the energy to cook. So your kids aren't getting the nutrition or food or, you know, dinner that they probably deserve or that you would have been able to cook or you're short with them. They're not in there helping you because you don't. You don't have any more energy and this and that. So then you just hand them a tablet. Don't go to town because you don't have the energy to interact or get help or do any of these things that if you cut that person out of a weekday life, I mean, you get to have all these wonderful things with your children or your spouse or your significant other or you know, whatever. Yeah. As opposed to doomscrolling on Facebook with your phone because you wore out, because your mom took all your energy, you know, or your brother take all your energy or your sister or cousin or friend who, you know, calls you just specifically because they don't have a therapist and they want to dump all their problems on you. You know what I mean? Like, but you're not there's there's no there's nothing in your life that tells you you have to be everybody around this therapist or venting anger or, you know, problem solver or you know what it is. You get to pick and choose who you have in your life. Yeah. I know you mentioned, at the beginning that, kind of early on in your journey, you had lost your father as well. And so I'm curious, like, for you and some of this work that you were doing in trying to kind of like you learn some of these boundaries, these elements, figure out and sort through some of your bags, and, and heal. Where in, in your journey did that happen and did that kind of shake things up or rock your world as far as in terms of healing, even? Oh, well, okay, so my situation was a bit I, you know, everything comes in threes, as they say in a lot of. Different cultures and different things. You know. And so I, I, you know, I'm, I work in construction, do carpentry and remodel houses in this. And I live in a rural area. And your, your pick up is your most important tool to do your job. So could you back forth? You could be anywhere within a hundred miles. So I blew the transmission in my pickup. Well, it went out, so I had no pickup in like a week or two later, I threw in the towel. No more relationships. So then I did what everybody does when you when you split up. And you have to start completely over your life and do all these things from scratch, you move in with your parents to get on your feet to figure out, you know, it's not like you're looking for a new place while you're breaking up and moving out of your house. You know what I mean? Most people have to go either family or friends or, you know, something to to start sorting it out. So then it's my parents house, which is in the same town, you know, six, eight blocks away. I think I was there for like two weeks, three weeks, maybe. And my dad died unexpectedly. You know, when I say unexpectedly, he was. Training to get training for the qualifier for the Boston Marathon. He was on a Sunday morning run a mile eight and me. And he died. Wow. And so. So I got grief, grief and huge pain of not having my pickup or a pickup and like, not having any way to get back and forth, not having any way to get around, got thrown into single fatherhood, still have nowhere to go pick her up, get around, do any of these things that I need to be able to do as a father, especially a father that doesn't have the mom, you know, in the same house doing all these things that my dad does. So then it spins me into this. I mean, like, I went into like a depression, but I was, you know, then it's it sent me into this depression. But it also was a lot of itself. Sort of self put I put it on myself. Nobody really asked me to. But then that's, that was part of the victim, you know, sort of habits that I had gotten into. But I was essentially I felt stuck at my mom's house, not only in my grief, but not able to escape her grief like my brother could come. I really could go home and get away from, you know, my mom just lost her husband of 35 years or whatever. So then I got started putting this extra guilt on myself that like, I can't move out because in my mom's going to be alone, and she hasn't been alone in her entire adult life and all these different things. But I was not processing any kind of grief or any my situation in this. And so, you know, instead of hiding an alcohol, I hid in, you know, for like a year, year and a half, couple years, all I did was go to work, come home, hang out with my daughter. If I wasn't at work, I was hanging out with my daughter. If I didn't have my daughter, then I was just at my parent's house, didn't go socialize, lost all my friends, stopped communicating with anybody and everybody that didn't either directly relate to work or parenting. Yeah, and was a deal where my mom was, you know, at some point, at one point, my mom just finally was like, hey, you need to go, you know? But I had already I had done a bunch of homework, and it was in a place where I was not, you know, feeling trapped necessarily, but I was kind of not really sure when the right time to just, you know, hear you, like, live in this half acre with four bedroom house that you can't really keep track, you know. Yeah, that's going to be a lot of house and a lot of work and all these different things for you because when dad died, not only did my mom lose her husband, but she also lost her job because he was the cook. She was the waitress at the restaurant that they owned. So then the restaurant shut down. So then Covid hits and there's all these different things that that kind of came later, but I it had forced me to process a lot of things, but also I had my dad was a was the, the object of a lot of my childhood baggage and trauma. And it was whether it was easier or or not. And when he died, I could finally sort of deal with it because there was nothing I could do about it. It's not like I could sit there and have the conversations with him. I had to just let it go, and that made it easier to just let go of all the the same sort of hurt feelings and animosity or pent up whatever emotional stuff. With my daughter's mother, it was easier to just it made it, you know, once I process that grief and let go of a lot of the baggage trauma from from my wife with him, it became easier to sort of go through and do that with everybody else. That was in and around my life on a smaller scale compared to him. What was my childhood? And so then it became easier to forgive others and it became easier to forgive myself, and it became easier to to take a home, look in the mirror or to look inside and figure out that, like, you know, 90% of the time I was the fucking problem. You know, in this instance, it was me and it was doing this, and in this instance, it was me that was reacting this way or doing this or doing this, and because of this and, you know, but that helped with the triggers and, and, and the identifying a lot of those things. But it was a deal where I was sitting there and I, I, I was acting like my dad. My daughter was like two and a half, you know, three and a half, four years old, something like that. And I'm fighting with him on the phone. She's crying. I thought she was inside, but I'm screaming out on the phone, getting screamed out on the phone. Look over. She's crying. My mom's looking at me like I'm a piece of shit. I was like, this is not the life I want, and this sure isn't the life I want her to have. And so then it just became, how do I make changes? You know, how do I change the reality that I'm in? And how do I change the way that I act? And how do I change the way that I think and and then it became a snowball rolling downhill because you keep gaining momentum the more that you can be uncomfortable. You actually look at yourself and your actions and take accountability and do these things that the first few of them. It's hard because you don't want to believe that you're the problem or that you're maybe not the best or you're not the good communicator. It's everybody, you know, all these different things. Yeah, but the more that I could kind of flip through a few of them in, the more that I got through a few of them. Then it became easier to get through others because I already knew, like, this is my habit. This is the same as that one. I did the same thing. I had the same rat, you know what I mean? And then as you get momentum, it becomes easier and easier to keep, you know, being aware and taking hard looks at yourself and being accountable to yourself about, you know, how did I did I handle this situation the way that I think I did or did I? Am I just trying to blame everybody else, or am I just not acknowledging my part that I played? You know what I mean? And and even if it wasn't necessarily me, you know, forgiveness is is a powerful thing because not forgiving people for them, it's so that you can just let go of all that or whatever you're holding onto most. Yeah. And what I really appreciate you mentioning there is, like you said, that momentum. I definitely find that in folks. It's that retraining of the brain, right? We're now giving our brain some new facts to latch on to, that like, hey, I can go into this and I can create a different way to, to find safety, versus purely relying on maybe this other pattern of behavior that I've been doing. And I think you're so spot on. But the more that we do that, the more facts that we give to our brain. It is that retraining of who? I can do this and this is possible for me to do. And so I love that. And so my last question that I like to ask folks is that if if you had access to a Delorean, my huge back to the future fans. So that's why I worked on there. Is there any point in time that you would go back and not necessarily to change something, but to offer you whatever age that's maybe appropriate, yet offer yourself some words or a different or maybe it's just a hug, that you would offer. What would you say? And I, I would. I would probably go back to when I was three, eight, ten years old, maybe. And I tell myself, and I think this was one of the biggest and, kind of kind of PPC campaigns, but one of the biggest, like. And so we got attention when we did something wrong or something didn't work out or whatever the case was. And so, you know, before that started becoming my habits, I was, you know, pretty athletic, didn't need attention in sports, but my brother wasn't so athletic. So he needs a lot of attention. And so I had to get attention there, going to be doing something wrong or need help. But you couldn't ask for help. It was more hard to watch, get fairly good at it, and then somebody would either, you know, you just basically had to watch and learn and then I would go back and tell myself that, like even knowing nobody's going to notice and you're not going to get any acknowledgment or praise. It doesn't mean that you should stop trying, because that was one of the biggest catalysts for me to just give up on everything and just throw my hands up and say, fuck it. And so, like, and I and I, and I don't remember exactly when that sort of sunk in. Maybe it was learned over at different sports and doing different different teams, you know, different baseball seasons and different wrestling seasons and stuff like that. But it was yeah, you know, being and being good or possibly, you know, maybe a little above average athletically. I, I didn't need help to, to get better. And I wasn't really running into and you know, adversity and so in everything I was doing was unnoticed. And so then it became a habit of why try nobody gives a shit. And so then that's for all the into all aspects of my life. Like if you don't try, you can't fail. And if you don't fail, you're not in trouble and you don't get in trouble, then you know what I mean? And it just kind of spiderweb it out. But I think that's probably the biggest thing. I would go back and, you know, I don't necessarily think I would want to change anything, and I probably give myself a hug and be like, you can still try, you know, somebody somebody, you know, later and later down the road people will notice and you will get the acknowledgment or the you know what? Not the praise is a bad word or criticism isn't good. But I think the more effort you put in and you get, the more you try, the more rewards you'll get later in life and in different situations. Because it's all depends on how much you want to, you know, do it for yourself more than other people. I guess. And I love that mindset, that idea of you as your self, as your, you know, your own person that you deserve to try and, you know, and being able to kind of even extend that to yourself, I think is just such a wonderful message that hopefully our listeners, you know, we're hearing that and you yourself, whoever is listening, also deserve to, to try, if you know, not for anybody else, but just for yourself. So that's awesome. I'll wrap up. So for anybody who, is wanting to connect with you or any services, this is our shameless plug section. So tell us all, what is it that you're offering? How can they find you? On Instagram? Is is the best place. And then it's just at JP Amara Sage. And then that's where, you know, people can send me messages or ask me questions or connect or anything like that. And I love social media, so I don't really do a lot. You know, I don't it's not it's not something that I, that I. It's just it drains me and it's. Yeah, it's just too much a lot of times and I and I have other things to do. But I did start a podcast. So then once I start publishing those soon, I hope that I'm working on it. Yeah. Do you have a name where you're, you're planning on releasing your podcast so we can be on the lookout? Marsh Talks okay. And I have it set up to go to to do Spotify, but we created any of the other ones that. Okay, well, make sure to check that out, everyone. And, as always, we'll make sure any of the links the socials get, get popped down to our show notes so you can check them out there. So I'm excited. I've got my guy all ready to go and pop them in the in the fridge. To set in there. So thank you so much for for sharing this recipe with us. Also for just being willing to to share your story, help normalize, especially for our dads out there that are listening. That parenting is hard going on. Some of this healing journey is really hard. But that you are not alone and that it is possible. So I really appreciate you, being willing to share that with us. And, join us today. So thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you, everyone for listening. We'll talk to you next time. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. So thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eat. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe. Social media's support and resource is all that can be found in our show notes, so make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe and stay up to date on all things the real family Eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food! Enjoy your eats!