Burnout to Breakthrough: Andi Clark’s Approach to Parenting Kids with Big Emotions

Dive into a real, honest conversation about parenting, big emotions, and finding the right support for unique kids. In this episode, Andi Clark shares her journey from burnout to becoming a sleep, stress, and executive functioning coach—plus, she offers a family-favorite sweet potato chickpea curry recipe.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• Andi’s personal story overcoming burnout and supporting her children through emotional and academic challenges.
• The signs and impact of burnout on both parents and kids.
• Insights into executive functioning, masking, and why some kids struggle in traditional school systems.
• Practical tips for helping children with big emotions, perfectionism, and learning differences.
• How Andi’s support community and podcast can help parents on similar journeys.

Check the show notes for all resources mentioned in this episode!

From Andi:

Remember those moments when your child was yelling in your face in public? Or having a panic attack? Or clinging to your side at a birthday party (if you even managed to get them out the front door)?

I’ve been there too.

I know what it’s like to stay at events and activities long after other parents have left, just in case my son had an outburst.

I’ve felt that loneliness, wondering how to help my child, feeling like every other kid had it together except mine.

Here’s the thing—you’re not alone.

There are so many kids out there just like our little firecrackers, and just as many parents feeling exactly the way we do.

My hope is that by sharing my story, experience and training through the years that you’ll gain the tools you need to understand your child’s needs and help them sooner than I did with a lot less mistakes.

Sleep, Stress , Trauma Informed & Executive Functioning Coach for Kids With Big Emotions. 30 years in the coaching world.

Connect with Andi:

https://andiclark.com/podcast/

https://www.instagram.com/kidswithbigemotions/

*******

Recipe shared courtesy of:

https://abbylangernutrition.com/incredible-good-vegan-sweet-potato-chickpea-curry/

******
Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!

For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

0:00

And as soon as I took the different lens, instead of that child is acting out, that child is misbehaving. That child is not doing what I've asked. I've taken that step back and thought, what does this part want? Hey everyone, thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on the Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. Welcome back everyone. Thanks so much for joining us again. I'm so excited for today's episode. We have Andi joining us today. Hi Andi. Thank you so much for joining. Thanks so much for having me. Yes, I am so excited for your recipe and your story. But before we get started, for anybody listening who doesn't know you, can you introduce yourself for us? Yeah. So I live in Canada, where it's pretty cold here right now. And, I a long time ago, my son was actually first born. He was born in with all the burnout signs. Cause I've been in burnout. And he was struggling with just so much going on with his body. And my mom came out, and that led me to being a sleep and stress coach. And I was gonna sort a burnout. But he still was having a lot of big emotions at that time, so I had no where he was. I moved all the sleep and stress coaching to first responders. And so I was working with them for a while, all through the pandemic. Everything until a couple years ago, because after the pandemic, I had to pull him from school because his outbursts were so bad. And I was like, how does this work? What do I do? Like what's going on? All these sleep and stress techniques that I use with responders to get them back from medically, back on, like they're not like it's still not stopping the outbursts. So I had to dive into all of these other pieces of the puzzle, and that drove me into being an executive functioning coach. And through my journey with responders. Two I became a trauma informed coach. So I am a sleep stress coach, trauma informed coach, and an executive functioning coach who now works with kids with big emotions. Okay, so lots of apps that you've had throughout your journey. It sounds like, it's been a journey. I mean, we do what we need to do for our kids. I'm like diving into the research and studying and certifying and whatever I can do. Yeah. Wonderful. And so you have two children? Yes, yes. Perfect. Literally, since, they are 11 and 13 to boys. Okay. Wow. You've got your hands full for sure. Yeah. They're amazing. So I homeschooled both of them as well. Well, I run my business, so. Wow. Okay. So for any of your services, this is a great segue into our shameless plug section. So if someone's interested in your services or connecting with you, what's the best way for them to do that? I would say to start off listening to my podcast, which I'm going to be having you on soon, which I'm very excited about. So that's Kids with Big Emotions podcast and then everything else I work one on one. I have a group, it's a support circle for parents as well. We're other parents with kids with big emotions are in there and just help them navigate through all of the sleep, stress, all of the, you know, executives and all of the different struggles that their kids are having and just help them all navigate through that in a support circle. So all of that, the links are all on my podcast. So if you just go to Kids and Big Emotions or Andy clarke.com, which is Andy C clarke.com. So Andy clarke.com will have everything on it as well. Perfect. And as usual we will link all of those wonderful links and resources down in our show notes. So make sure to check those out. As far as your podcast, where can folks find that? Is that on particular platform? So services, it's everywhere. It's on YouTube. It's on like everything Spotify, Amazon, Podbean. Yeah, everywhere. Like on Apple. It's on all different channels. We're almost hitting 1100 episodes, 5000. I wish we're almost at 100 episodes. So yeah. Wow. Congratulations. And that's so awesome. And it sounds like it's super accessible. So make sure to check that out as well. And I'm excited to be a guest and chat a little bit more on that side too. Okay. So let's dive into your story. But before we do that, what recipe are you sharing with parents today and why did you choose this one? Yeah. So this is a sweet potato chickpea curry we do sometimes and chicken into it. And I love this recipe because the thing is, time consuming is actually making the sweet potatoes. But I can do those in the morning when my kids are like, well, we're doing breakfast or while we're having lunch, I can throw them in the toaster oven and leave them and then rest together quickly later. So I love that I can kind of do it in two parts and do the other part quick. Also sometimes make batch as well, and then we'll freeze a bunch of it so it makes quick meals after. And my kids love it and it fills them up, which for boys, I don't know, they're going through a growth spurt. Filling them up is amazing. So I just love that. Like once you've got the sweet potatoes done, the rest is quick and easy and freezes so well. Wonderful. Yeah, you're absolutely right. So because of the nature of our of the podcast, I did the potatoes ahead of time too. And you're also right, you know, to be able to kind of do that, that get that out of the way, that makes a ton of sense, especially when we're talking about parents who sometimes, you know, having lots of time is not really a luxury feature to have. And so I love that idea. And being able to kind of sit it out like that and then just meet whatever your need is as far as time constraints. So that's awesome. Okay. So tell me what sense, I have, I have these sweet potatoes ahead of time that I baked and then I mix them together, with the coconut milk and the, vegetable broth. Am I remembering that correctly? Yeah. Perfect. So tell me now, what are what are the steps? What do I do while we chat? And then I'll get going and then we'll jump into your story. Yeah. So you have all the spices. So you'll need to chop ginger and garlic. Okay. And then once you have those chopped what you're going to start to do is you're going to heat your pan and start off with the human and the coriander seeds and toast them just till they're fragrant, like just a little bit. It's not alone. Very quick. And then you add in, oh you chopped an onion as well. So then you add in the onion turmeric, garam masala. And you'll start to do that until the onions get translucent and then add in. If you do choose a bit of chili pepper along with the ginger and garlic, we don't. I have one son that does not like spicy and one that likes. So the one adds hot sauce after and the other one keep mild. So the all the other spices. Nothing is spicy hot. There's spicy flavor. You can keep those. And then you spicy those. Once they're done you add the chickpeas that you've already drained okay. Add in the chicken. Satay them 2 or 3 minutes just to get some of the flavor and stuff in them. And then you pour that sweet potato mixture which the sweet potato mixture should be a little bit like liquidy, a little like not. You don't want it hard like mashed potatoes. You want them. And also it's just like a very thick sticks stew kind of thing. That's too think it'll burn on the bottom, and then all you do is add the tomato paste into it, I'll add cilantro into it and some spinach. If my kids, when they were younger, I used to blend the spinach and the cilantro with the with the sweet potatoes. So they see the pieces. But now they're fine with pieces of green in it. And then you just hit that. That's it. Wonderful. And I love that little, you know, to this, your kids are, like you said, maybe not liking the idea of leaving the veggies, that we can kind of sneak it in there as well. So perfect. I can do all those things while we chat. And I'd love to know more. And you kind of give us a little bit of a sneak peek as far as, some of the challenges that your family kind of face that brought you into what you're doing today. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about that journey and kind of how did that come about? I imagine, as you were saying, you know, you've been coaching and helping folks and then to kind of have it hit really close to home, was certainly, you know, kind of a different challenge presented. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah. So do you want me to hit on both the burnout and then having to pull them and learning the like, the pulling out, or want me to go more to when I had to really pull them out of school. It's the burnout is, at play as far as your parenting. So I think that many parents could absolutely relate to that. So we'd love to hear that. That's the thing is that I, I mean, I've been in the house and all this industry for 30 years, coaching for 30 years. And so exercise, nutrition and sleep all those things where like I was doing them all and I still burnt out. Right. So that's where it's fascinating that it really was having to change that mindset of, okay, other things are going on. And when you're in burnout, quite often you start getting gut issues and you might get skin issues and you get moody, and, you know, your husband might walk in the room and he smiles at you the wrong way. And you're like, this is fired at him. That he doesn't know which which end is up sometimes because you can't. You're stressed. Hormone is the one that manages your ability to handle stressors and your energy. And when it's crashing, you can't handle stressors. So everything just becomes a fiery struggle to handle your kids. You're just pushing from like the moment you wake up until the moment you go to bed. Like your battery doesn't charge at night. So yeah, it was one thing when it was happening to me and I was going to my doctor and I was saying, I'm really tired. That's going on, and they're saying, your tests are coming back. Okay. That was one thing. But to the next step where my son was born and his skin was the worst case of extreme, and the doctor had ever seen, and then we couldn't find like he ended up on this hyper allergenic for me, like I was gluten and dairy free. I was like everything I eat, like I ate. So clean. And he still couldn't handle, like, projectile vomit that we had to switch. So this, this hypoallergenic formula that was prescription based, it was just like the issues, skin all these things. And then once he was like, he was kind of talking about, like a year and a half, two years. And he used to say, I'm so sad and so sad. Or after he would eat certain things like rage would come, not even just anger or tantrum would be like rage hitting things like full on, like instant. If you eat it and you see this reaction in him, I'm like, okay, this is not just me, this is my son as well. So going to your entomologist, pediatric gastroenterologist, pediatric allergists and I remember being I was working with a natural part of the time to and the pediatric gastroenterologist had said that, oh, most allergies are never fixed, and there's no such thing as, like, leaky gut or something like that. Forget issues. And I'm like. No, no, no, no. Like, I've been told this for years and had been believing this for myself, that when nothing else that you're saying is able to help my son, I'm going this other route. So I started studying and learning and researching all of that issues, all about how like affects your hormones. And it was just I just felt so bad for him because I struggled for so many years with doctors telling me that this was just the norm. You know, it's just normal for a parent to be pushing through every single day. It's just normal for you to like, be struggling. And I'm like, this is not normal for a baby to be born like this. This is not normal. And it had to take me to that point to kind of hear all of that. And like you said, the it sounds like if I heard you correctly, you do almost kind of this conditioning, right, that it's just you, this is normal. So you just kind of have to put up with it. You just have to deal with it because this is what it is. And that's just like hearing that just kind of I mean, as I was listening to you get it's feelings and the thoughts are popping up in my head of just like this hopelessness and this just, like really lonely and kind of this really stinks. Like what? Yeah. I remember just thinking to myself, okay, I'm a personal trainer and I can't work out like I think. And instead this is just going to have to be my life because this must be in my head. I kept thinking, this must be in my head because the doctors just always, you know, my cortisol would come back really low, but it wasn't in disease yet. So they're like, we'll keep an eye on it. You're not. Do you have signs of Addison's disease? Which is like crazy, crazy low 2.5% of cortisol, but you're 10% cortisol, so you're not there yet. And I remember coming to the doctor's office and just thinking like, okay, I'm 10% cortisol on this test, but I'm not in a disease state yet. And I was so upset and so frustrated, and I felt so alone and like, this is just crazy. And it was only then I realized and really understood the difference between our medical system is triage, reactive medicine for disease. And we need them. We need them. They have a role, they have a place, but they're not preventative medicine. And I wasn't in a disease state yet, so training couldn't help them. So I needed to go to that preventative side. And and at the moment too, like I'm finally working with you guys. Specialist who she's a lead, researcher for a university. And and college three state college in the state. So. So she's a lead researcher in the students I've got that has gastroenterologist working under her. And she's a natural path. So she's helped me with wording I needed to use. And I'm finally being heard by my gastro to get to work with. So the holistic science working with the UMass. But this is such a struggle for so many people to where we go to our doctor and we expect they're going to help us, but we're not within their scope of where they're training hits. That we've been trained to believe that they should be able to help us through before we're in disease state. But it's not what their training is. Well, I'm like you said, you have to kind of get the inside scoop on what words to say or you know how to say it in order to get them to listen. I mean, that's not common knowledge that everyone has accessible. And so you're absolutely right. If you're going in and just kind of looking to these professionals, kind of be able to support you in you saying, hey, something's wrong and you don't have the code, you can crack the code to be able to get them to listen. Like, yes, I, I, I absolutely can imagine how frustrating that would be. And then, so like you said, to see in your child kind of coming up against that same wall like we're, you know, I don't know about you, but I would definitely my mom out there about would be like, you know, like, no. Right. Yeah, exactly. And so when it was happen, my son is diving so deep and listening to every podcast. And finally, this one podcast listed. So I had some slightly different some symptoms than him, some similar. And I listen to podcast one day that listed all of our symptoms together and started talking about it. As far as like the adrenals or stress system and stuff. And I remember sitting on the floor crying and being like, oh my God, I'm not crazy. It's not in my spine. I'm like, damn. So deep into researching and learning and training and studying and courses and yeah, it was, it was un believable that when my son was six years old, we went back to the doctor and the doctor's going over and going, it's gone. There's no eczema anywhere. So he had the worst eczema that I've ever seen in a baby. He's like, and it's funny because I can see some scars, but it's gone and never swear. Like, I had to build him sleeves when he was a baby because he used to scratch his wrist open in his sleep and come to me at two in the morning going, mommy bleeding help! And I don't like sitting at two in the morning just bandaging this kid's wrist. And you go, thank you. And then go right back to that. Like, that was just one for him. Mean it's just it's. And I'm like, no, this isn't normal. This is not in your head. This is truly happening. And we need to dive down into this. Yeah. And to kind of have someone all of a sudden validates, like you said, this, this, you're not alone. And and it's not something that's just kind of made us. Oh, I mean, it's so powerful. And I think that's part of I mean, I can just speak for myself. Part of the reason why I was so passionate about wanting to even start a podcast like this, because so much of just what I've heard from other parents for my own experience is it is like when you are sitting there and keeping it to yourself because for whatever reason, then it it gets really lonely. You don't hear stories that sound like yours, then it just really furthers that narrative and like, it must just be something that's wrong with me or, you know, I'm missing. Yeah, yeah, it it was. You go through all these fields too, because once you realize there actually is something going on, you go through the anger. You also go like the grief, like you go through all those stages, right? Like, it's been so long. How many years since I've been struggling and no one could help me. And you get angry, and then you're like, no, I'm picking up my socks and put my big girl pants on. I'm gonna fix this. And yeah, it's just fascinating. All of the fields that you go through. And then, okay, now I'm alone in this fight, and then you realize others are fighting this fight, and you're like, how this community. Wow. Okay. You know, there's others too. And and. Yeah, it's just it can be so, so lonely, So tell me then, you know, you're you're fighting this fight. You you get some of the kind of physical manifestations where your child kind of finding some solutions. And then you mentioned, you know, then you kind of had another growing pain as you continue to grow. And you know that once you're into the emotion side, can you say more about that journey and kind of how did that come about? Yeah. So we were able to help with the physical side. But that anger was still always there. And the perfectionism and the anxiety and the not liking change. And when he started going to school, he hated it right from day one, like day one. He hated, hated, hated, hated being in. And he would cry going to school. And it was just such anxiety. And I had. A neighbor ended up taking him to school. And so because he was a bit better going to school, but it was still bad. And then we had a child this year at this point that was kindergarten and grade one, and then I think the pandemic hit. So we were off all agreed to part of grade one, and all of grade two was at home. Okay. And then he went back. It was just like still the same thing. And it was like it was too loud, too many noises, just all kinds of stuff. And he was bored. He was just super bored. And the teacher was like, I don't know what to do with him. So I thought his brother was in gifted. And I thought, okay, once, you know, the testing happens in grade three here, once he does the testing, he'll get in the gifted. We'll get him out of this school where he doesn't really like it. And he'll he'll be challenged and all of that stuff. And he didn't get in the gifted. I was like, well, this kid smarter than his brother is smarter than his brother. I'm like, yeah, how did he not get in the Gifted? I didn't understand at. So the teacher was phenomenal that year, though, because amazing. He didn't know what else to do with my son. Like schoolwork wise. And so my son read books most of the day in class, and if he we had like a code word, so he would. And if he would explode or had explosions in school, the teacher would call me or call me just before an explosion would happen to go and get him. This was happening like 3 or 4 times a week. So right now it's making him Tuesdays and Thursdays and he just needed quiet. He needed to down regulate. And he was really good the whole entire day. I could go upstairs and work in the office, and he spent the whole day and he was fine. But he still struggled sometimes on Fridays to still be in school. I still get calls from the teacher when the school would only deal with it because I went in and I'm like, well, he's bored as well. They're like, but he didn't get in the gifted and I'm like, then. But he's bored and he's having outbursts of the old outbursts. Okay, let's work with him. When he's in the red. And I'm thinking the part of why he's in the red is that he's bored. And we also didn't understand as well that he'd been masking what at that point to end up thinking was learning disability. But it was a lot of these kids. And that's why he didn't pass the gifted screening was because. So he was 99.9% in every subject for every crazy. But it was the facial that he didn't pass for 90. So he got 96% out of all the kids and not 98. So he didn't pass and went like so if we fast forward to all of my learning. So we ended up doing psycho at Valve and learning and they said he had a disability and learning disability and written expression where apparently. So this is dysgraphia, which falls under the dyslexia and the dyscalculia. Okay. And dysgraphia is struggling to write by hand. Get your thoughts on paper. And so also like do grammar punctuation, all of those things. And so if we fast forward to me trying to figure out how does his brain work. Like once I brought him home, I realized he can't handle more than one instruction at a time and write out the answers to math, which he tested in grade three grade eight level math. But he could not even write down how he got the answers for grade three math. Okay, so he can do all this in his head, but he can't get the stuff on paper. Problems that was causing it was yeah, and that's so cute. If it's okay with you. I heard you mentioned that he was masking out. And so for any listener who's who is listening and maybe doesn't know what that looks like, because I think that sometimes that's very much a big culprit for something like this. Getting this. Can you say a little bit more about, at least in your experience, what is masking? What did how did it present for your child and kind of your experiences? Wow, that would be amazing. Yeah. So being that he was in school and reading full chapter books, being that he could do dictation, he could do dictation words, like at college level. So when he was asked to write something down like, hey, write a paragraph about this, do that, he'd write like one sentence and they'd look at him and go, hey, you know, you could write more on this. He's like, I don't want to say this. I don't want to write calmly. Never. And and they would be like, but you should. He goes, no, I'm not going to do it. And it was like, there is no, he didn't fight with them. He wouldn't reason with them. He wouldn't let them do anything you don't know. And then he eventually start saying, it's too easy. And so they were like, well, I can't challenge this kid, so what am I supposed to do? I've got 30 other kids in the class, so they just let him be and go back to read his book. And same thing with his math. The teacher knew that he could do math at such a high level in his head. They just didn't argue with him and then being able to get it on paper, okay. And then and now that I see on this, I would be curious to go back to that classroom and wonder if shortly after the teacher asked him this, did he have an outburst and yell at another kid, well, why do you say that? Because he would have been sitting there knowing that he could not do it, knowing that his brain was different and he would have been because and this is the thing, I don't like the term gifted because gifted often means that a kid can academically do things, but their brain works different and they often have a lot of social or, you know, different struggles in the way that they perceive things and the traumas that they have. All of these things. So from a young age, he could always do things. And then all of a sudden in school, he was being asked to do something he couldn't do. And the trauma can kick the can, right? Something's being asked of you. Too soon, too fast, too much, and too. I can't remember the other. The other one. But those create traumas and when we start driving, the way their brains work, they have a bucket only for mistakes or bad. So he would get pissed if he slightly was inside the line and coloring and even a circle, drawing a circle or drawing his letters. They weren't perfect. It wasn't the perfect test for a perfect P. And I'm thinking your writing is way better than mine, but you know. But it wasn't perfect, so it wasn't bad. So he would even often rip up his artwork where he would wrap up his paper where he was asking him to do so. He have anger and outbursts because he's sitting there thinking that he's been a failure. He's been back. And they get this like, it's just fascinating when you start talking to these kids and with perfectionism and fear of making mistakes, you start realizing every single thing that they do wrong. They fear they put in that I'm a bad person bucket and I've done wrong. Bucket instead of what they all say, oh, just move on to the growth mindset. And there's other steps that have to happen before they're ready and able to do that. Absolutely. And I think we want to I find that and I don't know if this is true for you. Is this a growth mindset? First of all, they're you know, it's easier said than done. And then also the it doesn't move into the growth mindset doesn't necessarily all of a sudden, did you give children a cognitive ability that develop naturally? They're not quite there yet. They don't like. You should be able to kind of distinguish the gray. Right now it is all very black and white. And so it is either I did amazing or like you said, I'm a failure. And this is somehow, you know, on on me is something that I, you know, shortcoming. And so yes, we can give them skills and they might be able to kind of conceptually like okay, that makes sense, but doesn't always necessarily mean that their brain is able to get there and get there consistently for all these challenges that they're reaching on a daily basis that are challenging that construct of themselves. And so that sense. So, for instance, and I think it was in that similar to kind of your experience at all. Yeah. And it's fascinating because and you made me think back to the psychoactive drugs. And I never actually linked this before, but when we did this like a, when about she said that he has, learning disability, I've written this expression in black and white thinking, and I remember her telling us that's never going to change. You can't fix that. And I remember there is there's so many things about that cycle. What about that? I was just like in my mind thinking, I'm gonna figure out a way, you know, and it's just been so fascinating to go, like, now to think back because I hadn't. And yeah, that black and white thinking mistakes are bad. You know everything. You have to say things this way. This is how this is done. Like so for reasoning gain or losing. Right. Losing in a game is like, yeah, I just could not handle that. And it's been so much work in understanding black and white thinking, understanding cognitive flexibility and working with him that, I mean, he still has some more work to do on it. Oh my gosh. Like he laughs at himself sometimes when he makes mistakes now and he'll actually purposely do things that are silly or like being a kid that he wouldn't, or because that will look bad or that's not how this is done. Or somebody might laugh at me and it's just been fascinating seeing the change in him in. Yeah, with mistakes and being able to make those mistakes and starting to now like I had to pull off, even though academically he was ahead in homeschooling, I've had to pull off of all of that because I need to work at a stuff that he's cognitively ready for. As far as working with him and being able to do more than one step at a time, working at his home on something that maybe he doesn't actually know how to answer, and being okay with that. So I've been working more on the all of that side of things, the executive functioning side of things with him and not focusing at all on the academic. It's been like un believable. And the fascinating thing is, is I have not had him write anything. I have not touched that learning disability or written expression. And I found in his Google Drive a two chapter story that I thought he copied from somebody that was so good. Amazing grammar, amazing punctuation, better than mine. And I think it was such an amazing story written out. And I asked him where he got it from. He's like, I wrote that. And that was because we'd worked on all of the where all of the things that were stopping him from being able to pass and think about, okay, what do I need to do for sentence structure here? What do I need to do? I need two paragraphs. Like before his brain was going so fast. He couldn't stop. He couldn't pause. He couldn't self-monitor himself to notice any mistakes. He couldn't self-correct himself. And also two, he would be so hard on himself about self-correcting anyways that that would have sent him in a tailspin. Before you even start adding grammar and punctuation in there. Oh, and so it sounds like by giving him that opportunity to to not have that pressure to fit into a box. But, you know, we're trying to cram everybody else into he was able to kind of on his own find find his lane there. Is am I doing that correctly? Yeah. He's finding his way. He still doesn't know what subjects he likes. He still doesn't know what interests him other than Pokemon in Minecraft. But, you know, he's like, in subject wise, like my he does seem to like history, but he's very cautious about telling me that he likes history because I think he's weird in the back of his mind that I'll give him stuff that he won't understand or that will be too hard or that will just hurt his brain. And so I'll just sometimes his hand in some videos or just hand them up. There's so many things you can do homeschooling wise that work different parts of his brain. There's some great, you know, video games that are all history. And I'm like, hey, why don't you try this game? And I have to start him off on the steps because he's always there's still that piece. Sometimes that I think it's a trauma from before starting things and getting that initiation of things. So which is all executive functioning still too, and working with the traumas. But there's so many pieces to the puzzle. Right. And then I've learned executive function, who I studied under to become a coach just through, Tara Sumner, who's an SLP. And I do remember when she said that she discovered a long time ago that dysgraphia, dyslexia, dyscalculia. Well, not on some of this calculator is a bit different, but some of it is executive functioning. Executive functioning struggles that she has been able to work with kids with all of these and been able to help them, be able to get past them, because they're actually executive functioning. But our school system tends to put them under a learning disability, and they're only looking at the way that they academically do things, and they're not looking at the way that the brain cognitively thinks and processes, you know, perception and where their attention is when they're doing these letters and what they're inhibiting. And if they can self-monitor and if they can self-correct, if they can't do those things, then they are going to constantly spell things backwards and mix up their letters and not be able to work on those things. Have to figure out which part is it, their nonverbal working memory like, which parts of it is causing them to not be able to write all their letters? I imagine with the masking that you mentioned that that just further complicates, especially if we're talking about folks who aren't paying attention or even know what masking is. The easily could get missed in those ways. And so then we're going then this doesn't you don't fit this diagnosis. So my it and then let's move on in in dismissing it in that way that as well. And our teachers as they're amazing I love teachers. They're not that executive functioning. They're taught the academic side how somebody should learn if their executive functioning system is completely intact, if they're executive functioning is running the way that it is, then they should be able to do the stuff that, like the teachers are being taught, they're not taught about executive functioning. So, yeah, here Sumner is the nominal. She is booked until like 2026 to speak in schools. Are some schools that have hired her to teach all of their teachers. It's slowly coming where teachers are learning about it and teachers are coming on board with that. But most teachers aren't aware of it, which is, as I was saying, like the support circle that I have. Like, I'll start teaching parents how to in a in a way that teachers, most teachers, not all, I will be open to hearing about it in order to be able to help and support their child child's class in there. Because this is one of the big gaps we have is teachers want to help the child, but they don't understand the executive functioning side of it and how to support it. And so that's when to they may miss. So with my son, they missed it more because they didn't understand the executive functioning side and none of them. When I went back and told them that dystrophy, that none of them had known about dyspraxia. The teacher of the year before is teacher. This year, like that year, none of them had heard about dysgraphia. I went to a couple of other teachers, my other son, and had none of them had heard of it. So there's a I mean, how can they learn everything, especially when their kids are filled with, you know, 30 kids in a class? How can they have any bandwidth to even go and take an extra course in certification, like for a year? Yeah. So I think to for him it was he was masking and they also didn't understand enough about what was going on that they weren't able to ask the right questions to figure it out either. Yeah. I'm really curious for you now, going to the parent side and kind of getting in your brain a little bit. I'm curious about what was going on for you upstairs in your brain, kind of seeing your child struggling through this, getting those phone calls, and, and just not having a lot of answers at that point in time on how how do I support my kid? Can you say a little bit more about that piece of it? It was so hard, so lonely. Like we talked before about that burnout piece being lonely. This was where I was led to believe that my son was the only one in this school that was having outbursts or having struggles like this, that like, didn't get them the gifted, but they wouldn't help him now that he didn't get in the gifted. And I felt like I was the only one. And going through this later, like there, actually ended up being a gifted group in our in our neighborhood, in our in our zone, in our school zone, our area. And I started realizing that there were a lot of other kids that were also struggling with the same thing and and that the school system truly did not understand it. And the gifted programs don't understand it either. My gifted here is grade level, so they don't go above grade level for anything, and they don't understand all the executive functioning and learning disabilities and all these kids have to when is they are smarter. So it's been it was super lonely. And then it was very frustrating when I found out. Well, just being told by the school all the time, the guidance counselor would only ever call me or wanted me to meet her in person, would never ever reply to anything an email. So nothing was on her and and she would pretty much never ask me what was truly going on with my son would just tell me what needed to happen. And in my mind I'm like, you don't understand my child at all. So they hadn't spent any time to even get to know him. And it was very frustrating once I got into these other Facebook groups and stuff and I realized, oh, this isn't only my son, there are tons of kids out there. And then there's tons of two reasons twice exceptional, which means they're academically ahead, but they usually have another struggle. So dysgraphia, dyslexia, ADHD, autism, auditory processing, sort of like anything like when these kids are struggling to, you know, get their morning routine, get their stuff out the door they can't like, remember to bring anything home from school. They can't remember how to hand in their homework or get their assignments done on time. All of these things, I'm realizing, oh, these are there's tons of these kids out there. And so you start going, okay, I'm not lonely anymore. But then they're all struggling to and they're like, oh, but they're all struggling too. And now that I understand about the executive functioning piece, as I read, like I want to go in there all day and just being like, oh my gosh, you could have an executive functioning like you could what you just said, that's this piece of executive functioning and that's this one and this one and this one and these all make sense. I just want to shout it out there, and I want to reply to everyone and give them a hug and be like, there's actually a reason behind this. Yeah. It sounds like it might just, you know, maybe even providing not only that normalization, that you're not alone, but just a validation that it's there's something going on there. It's not just all kind of made up or something that you have to kind of survive in the sense that there's something wrong, but rather that it just means that maybe we got it. We've got to get a little bit more creative on how we're supporting these children. Yeah. And and that's the thing is the way that I've been taught to Tara is that they're easy things. How do I explain this as a parent. You're still sometimes it's frustrating here. And there's simple things that you have to do them over and over again repeating them over and over. You have to support them and you really have to lower what your expectations are like. Okay, so this kid can read chapter books, but he can't write on paper. We need to work on these things. Or he thinks every mistake is is really bad. How do we come in with this? Like we have to build up their cognitive flexibility on that. We have to build up their this, this other file for them to understand not everything is bad. And how do we do that, especially in like a schooling system where there's usually consequences for like points on a test and you need to get certain points right, like in homeschooling with my kids, I tell them that tests are for us to know what else we could do and work on, or where we should actually focus next. It's not to test if you feel that learning something. So that's at the beginning and go, okay, do this test and let's see where we need to focus. You're not supposed to get all the answers on this. I don't want you to so that we know what we should do this semester, you know. Right. And I love that we because I seen so much of this insight is you look at tests. And one of the reasons, at least in my experience, my test anxiety is is a real thing is because there is that narrative that I'm going in there and I this is going to determine in. Me something about me and whether or not I'm succeeding in some way, or if I'm failing in some way. And there is, you know, going back to that black and white thinking, right? So much of that narrative, I find that is is perpetuated when we think about test is is going into that black and white and that's all that's what's being perpetuated. And so I love that reframe of that. This is actually this test is an opportunity for me as your teacher, as your educator to learn what are areas that I could be better in supporting you and helping you to grow? Yeah, right. And there's one thing, too, that Terra Terra has a bunch of teachers that do take her course and there is one teacher that at the end of the school day, every single day, they ask the kids, what did I do? Well. And today, and what do I need help in or what do I what can I work on more things? She asks them that every day, and it was fascinating because she said the change in the kids over time. First off, it really helped her see when she had kids in her class, they couldn't even notice the mistakes they were making. So she's like, oh, I need to work on actually their self. So self monitoring. Yeah, they need to learn how to self monitor themselves to know even where they're weak or strong in this. This is they didn't even know that they're weak in something. Right. And that they need to work on it. And so she worked with them. And what she found is over time, kids started coming up to her during her free time and going, you know, can I work on this or can I work on that? And it was the thing that they knew that they needed to work on, and they were seeing it as a negative anymore, when every single day they had to notice, they got to acknowledge what they did. Well and do more work on what could I use some help with. So it's just asking those two questions every single day in a classroom can give a teacher so much insight to wrestling with the black and white thinking, and the not being able to notice your mistakes. Like so many different things, if they know what to look for from those two simple questions. Yeah, absolutely. And when I was, you know, I got one of the things you mentioned earlier was that growth mindset. That's a wonderful way to nurture that. And and really work out that muscle in the brain as being able to take a look at those areas that maybe we do could use some extra growth in and could use some developing and and like you said, instead of it being a all or nothing about who you are as a character and who you are as a person, that it's key areas of growth is normal for everybody. And we all have areas that we could, you know, bump back and and really improve. And so that's okay. That's actually something that we're all working on. It might look a little bit different. You know what one person is working on versus the other. And that's totally okay. And being able to kind of allow that space for messing up because we're human and we're kind of messed up. And so we kind of get stuck in that. I mess up now that must mean I'm a horrible person, you know, and and you know, gosh, I'm, I'm so a lot of what I hear that all the time where we get kind of used to that idea that if I, if I feel it this problem lovable that makes me. And so being able instead to kind of shift that is an up because I'm human and now all of a sudden I'm like, okay, so how can we problem solve this versus, you know, getting stuck in it? Yeah, absolutely. And that's black and white thinking to get so stuck and put down on yourself. And something that stood in my mind when you said that too is the rewards system. So for some kids they thrive on a reward system. It works great for them, but for other kids, they may not have the cognitive ability to perform the way you're asking them to perform. That's when they can't do it. They feel like they failed. So you're giving a reward system for 30 kids when some are very capable and some are like just barely keeping it together right then those kids you're barely keeping it together are going to get worse and worse and worse because the expectations being put on themselves, they can't achieve, and then they feel the bad person. And that's the thing in parenting too, is I have to really take this step back. And I think of it's a cognitive ladder is it's a therapy thing. And so kind of a ladder is we think of a ladder of all the steps. So I think of the top step, where do I want my kids to get to? I want them to get to all of those behaviors for that reward. Start. But if they can't I need to step down. Well, can they do this? Not yet. So let's put that one rung down. Can they do this yet? Nope. Not yet. Let's go. One run down. So you start at the first rung is where can they be? And business. Yes. And then you keep moving up those rungs and and that's the thing is we've been so conditioned as well to think like in this age they can do this, in this age they can do that in this age. And it's so different. It is so different. They are going to be ahead in some things over other kids, and they are going to be behind in some things with other kids. It doesn't matter the child they are always going to be, nothing is going to be the same for every age of a child. And and that's where as parents too, it's really hard because there's these social pressures, there's these norms, these parenting norms, these ways of disciplining that may work well for one of your kids. It may not work at all for another kid. And we have to stop and think, okay, what is going on with that kid? Where are they able? Where do I wait? Where can I meet them? At their cognitive level, at their ability? At their abilities right now? Like where truly are their abilities? And this is the hard thing to as a parent is to go, oh, my kid's abilities. And these are way lower than other kids are right now. You get this same parent, you get this guilt, you get this. Well, am I a bad parent? Have I done something wrong? And I don't often see that. Oh, my kids actually ahead in these other things. Sometimes we then just focus only on the things that they're under and behind on. Yeah. And we focus so much on that. And in a way that's not. And not in the lens of okay, where are they at? Let's think of this like riding a bike. What steps they actually need. Instead, we try to get them right to the top of that ladder. Yeah. I'm so curious for you, has there been any moments that have really helped you in navigating that? Like you said, that seem and that help that sometimes is very, very familiar to parents. You know, parent guilt is a real thing that many of us get really good at giving to ourselves and, and have that difficulty, kind of, like you said, stepping back and being able to kind of maybe have to have some reframe, of that perspective of what our kids can do. And so I'm so curious, like, for you, how how have you been able to navigate that balance? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I used to be the parent that would judge I would judge I think this is how parenting is. This is what you're supposed to do. This is how a child reacts. If they if they don't act this way, this is what you're supposed to do to them. But I used to I used to judge until I had my son. You're given every time you're giving your kids for a reason to write things I used to judge until I'm in public and my child would be yelling at me in the face, like randomly yelling at me, and I'd be like. And I had to do a lot of therapy on myself as well and be okay with me. Part therapy was actually a huge help for me, and that's my trauma. Informed coaching is two parts. Three of us. And so with parts therapy, I learned that every time somebody is reacting a certain way, it's a part of them that's protecting them. It's protecting them usually from the vision of a child. So the reaction that they're having is usually going to be like pretty. They're bold or however it is. And you have to stop and think, oh, that's a part kicking up. And as soon as I took the different lens, instead of that child is acting out, that child is misbehaving. That child is not doing what I've asked. I've taken that step back and thought, what is this part one? So a really good example is there was once that my son was and we were going to Pokemon. He loves Pokemon. It's every Thursday night with his friends this tournament. It's great. They love it. And he was getting in this tiff. He was just like not getting himself ready, but then getting angry at us and then saying that he was coming in. And so I said something like, you don't have to go if you don't want to go see, that's not what I want. And I'm like, okay. And normally I would have been like, well, you're yelling at me, this isn't right. And I went, oh, this is a part kicking in. I'm like, so do you want to go this way? I don't know, like, okay. So I stopped what I was doing, which is also hard to do when you're trying to get out of the house and get into something on time. And I stopped and went, okay, so it seems like there's a part of you that wants to go. But a part of you isn't sure about what you want to do when you want to go, because you still want it. You don't want to stay home. He's like, yes, my. Okay, so is it that you're unsure about playing, but you maybe want to see your friends and instantly you saw him come and he's like, yeah. And I thought to myself, oh man, he is struggling with the fact that he might lose a game. He's probably had a day that's taxed his whole system and he's worried about going to play, but he still does want to see his friends and he doesn't want to miss out. So I was like, okay, well how about this. We go we go to your brother. Once we get there, you let me know if you want me to sign you up or not. You go hang out with your friends. You have to let me know. By the time they start. And if you don't want to do this perfectly fine. You let me know when you want to walk home. I'll. I'll come with you. Your brother's old enough to stay on his own. I'll come back and get him later. He's like, okay. Instantly packed up with stuff totally fine. And we left. And it was that I think was such a big moment for me to see. It's usually parts. There's a reason why they're acting the way that they're acting. We're not always going to know as a parent what the reason is, and we're not going to like it's not going to be as laid out as that scenario I just gave. That was an amazing yeah it is not every scenario works that way with him. Like I don't always figure it out, but it helped me go through a different lens and be and handle it differently, not judging him. And then you would ask about the guilt and shame. Now that I understand that it's parts in him, it's what he needs. I've gotten to the point to in myself and working on myself, that I love myself and my neurodiversity and my ways of being and my differences. I was judged for growing up, and now I'm like, you know what? My kids are awesome. And if people are going to judge me, I know that when I did it before, it was because I didn't understand and I was not that place of somebody is going to judge me. It's because they are lower on the cognitive ladder. They're like, we're on a different stack and they're at the step. The judges, I've been there, so I can't judge them. At the same time, I'm a few steps higher, which is not said in a judging tone or anything. It's just I've worked to that step. That's where I am, and that's okay to be there even if others don't understand it. Wow. That sounds like, if I'm hearing it correctly, just really being able to maybe extend some of that compassion and grace for whatever step and process other folks and, and yourself are at, and also being able to kind of honor those pieces and know that they are all ways that we can grow and that for you, it hasn't happened overnight. It sounds like it's come from a lot of hard work, a lot of intentional hard work. To be able to say this is an area that I want to grow in, I'm kind of going after that. At the same time, it sounds like being able to offer that same compassion to our children. I'm saying like know meeting them where they're at and having that be okay without, like you said, that just meant that you're just it sounds like curiosity is what's going on for you, where you at and how can I best support you at whatever step you're in? Yeah. And I do want to say for everybody listening that that sounds all beautiful and nice and everything, and that's not how it is all the time. I do yell sometimes. There's sometimes where I do just listen and I yell, and then afterwards I have to come back and be like, okay, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that. And there are other times where I will come up to them and go, I'm gonna yell at you, and I need you to know I'm going to yell because I've done everything else that I can do in my toolbox right now. I don't know how else to help you, and I just need to yell. And I just need to tell you what's frustrating me right now. And then I'll be done. And I've done that as well. So it's like, it's been funny and it's so funny because when I do that with my husband, sometimes I actually stop sometimes and then it's like it changes a state sometimes, which is funny. So like, not everything is perfect. Like it's not what I explained as to how I do approach it. I don't always have the bandwidth to approach it that day. That way, every day and every time. And that's okay to. As long as I'm doing my best with the bandwidth that I have on that particular day, if I'm doing my best, then however I react is going to be okay. My kids will be okay if I totally overreact, if I totally yell at them and I come back later and say, okay, I'm not having a good day, I'm struggling today that was not because of what you had done. So we need to figure this out. We'll figure it out together, but I can't right now. They're getting used to that too. That I'll come back and talk it through with them. I will say that how you were reacting was not okay as well. Yeah, yeah. And I really appreciate you and is making sure to add that this is this is us right at our best capacity. And, you know, a great day. And yes, absolutely. It's it's not. And and like you said that it's okay to also, going back to that that idea, it's okay to myself and because we're going to and parenting is really hard and I think that if you didn't mess up, I would be asking you, what is your secret? What did you take? And if somebody said they didn't mess up at all, I'd be like, what are you not telling me? You right now? What's really going on? Yeah, absolutely. Alright, so as we wrap up the last question, I always like to ask folks that, if you had access to a Delorean and a big back to the future. Yeah. Is there anything that you would go back and tell yourself, as far as anything that you've learned or just giving yourself a little love, what would you offer to your self if you had access to what that makes me tear up? Because of all the work I've done on myself and all that I've learned about these kids with these cool brains is usually when we have these kids with these brains that struggle to do certain things that are totally in another world with other things, then usually their parents are a part of it, have it as well. So I've now learned that the things that like I never lived in a box growing up and my parents always tried to put me in a box. And I now know that I go back to that girl and girl like fly. Use your imagination, be you on a apologetically you, you know, think outside the box. It's okay that they don't understand it and maybe are fearful of some of your ideas. And how do you dive into subjects. But one day that is going to, I mean, with me, with that is going to allow you to get responders back from medical, even back on the job that's going to stop them from committing suicide. So it's going to stop and help these kids and these parents to do that. So go back and be unapologetically you and live in you and who you are, because you are going to change the world because you are being you with that neurodiverse brain. And I love that so much. So I got goose bumps because it's, it's such a powerful message. And thank you. Thank you so much for being willing to open up and and help pull back that curtain and share with us the struggle that is parenting and, also sharing this recipe. I'm so excited to have something to share with my kids. My kids love a good curry, but we've never had this particular recipe, so I'm so excited to share it with them too. Thank you so much for for joining me today. I really do appreciate you. Thank you so much. Yes, yes. And everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. And as Andy said, I hope that this episode helps inspire you to fly and be unapologetic here today. Thanks so much and we'll see you next time. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources you can get help. So thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe. Social media's support and resource, as all of that can be found in our show notes. So make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe, and stay up to date on all things the real Family Eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food! Enjoy your eat!