Redefining Family: Amy Stone on Imperfection, Communication, and Step-Parenting

Get practical insights on step-parenting, family dynamics, and personal growth in this episode featuring Amy Stone from "The Art of Imperfect Adulting." Amy shares real-life stories, challenges, and tips for navigating blended families and big life transitions.

• How Amy became a stepmom and the unexpected challenges that came with it
• The importance of redefining family roles and creating new traditions in blended families
• Practical strategies for communication, boundaries, and managing complicated family schedules
• Personal experiences navigating grief and how community support plays a role
• Lessons learned about self-growth, therapy, and navigating tough parenting moments

Watch now to learn how real families face real challenges with honesty—and a little humor.

From Amy:

Amy Stone is a coach or mentor, author and podcaster. She is the creator of The Art of Imperfect Adulting and Stepparent Success School. Amy understands that being a grown up can sometimes be tougher than expected. In her own experience “adulting” she sometimes struggled to find the education, support and community she was looking for and so she began to do her part to create those resources for herself and others.

Connect with Amy:

The Art of Imperfect Adulting 

https://feeds.captivate.fm/imperfect-adulting/

IG 

https://www.instagram.com/theartof_imperfect_adulting

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Pom Mocktail

Lemon Flavored Fizzy water (I choose La Croix but anything works) with a splash of pomegranate juice and if you want a squeeze of fresh lemon or lime juice. Over ice in a pretty glass.

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!

For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

0:00

I look back now and I can see that what I was doing was redefining what my concept of family could look like, redefining what my identity within a family could look like. Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa, and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories. Here on The Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. Welcome back everyone. Thank you so much for joining us again. I'm excited for today's episode. We have Amy joining us today. Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Reesa. I am so excited to hear a little bit about your story. But before we get started with all of that, for anybody who doesn't know you, could you introduce yourself for us? I sure can. My name is Amy Stone and I am the host of the Art of Imperfect Adulting. I'm a mom and a stepmom and a wife and a sister and a daughter and all of these things. I am talking to you today from sunny South Florida, where it's not at all sunny. Today. We're having a little bit of a cool snap, and so I'm wearing one of the two sweaters that I own. Did you have to dig it out? I'm not in that point yet. I have a two day limit. And then I have to dig into the deep parts of my closet. And at that point I go from, you know, wearing something that's, you know, cute ish to rocking the itchy, like, almost like, is she unhoused or is she just a Floridian who is wearing everything she owns? Yeah. Yeah. Fair point. Fair point. Probably not a whole ton of use for some of that stuff. Exactly. I've. Yeah. That's right. All right. Well, I love it. So you mentioned several things that you've got going on. Many hats. And this is our shameless plug section. So tell us, what you got going on, how folks can find your podcast and get connected with you if that's something that they're interested in resonates? No, absolutely. I'd love for people to join me over at the Art of Imperfect Down Thing, which is, a podcast and streaming show where I share stories of choices and changes that people make and how that impacts the path of their life. And then I have two products. One is step successful and the other is a community which I call the village. So you can find all of that, in order to dancing.com. Wonderful. And that's so cool. Can you tell us a little bit about your community and, the group that you mentioned? Sure. I sure can. I'm happy to do that. So in the, way I see things, adulting is a long process. And, you know, 18 to forever, right? And so I'm building a community that bridges a lot of a lot of a lot of generations and a lot of interest groups and there's a focus every single month. It's, built on the premise that imperfection is a starting point and not necessarily a sign that something has gone wrong and that we can work through these things with the help of somebody like me who has some coaching tools, but also the community aspect of creating a loving, supporting motivation community that comes together to help people move through transitions and changes that we're going through. Wonderful. That sounds awesome. And as always, we'll have all of that linked in our show notes. And make sure to link up with Amy if that's something that resonates. There's a campaign. All right. So tell me, we are doing, one of our first drinks on the show. So tell us what recipe you're sharing today. And why did you choose this one? So, you know, it came out early to share a recipe, and I was like, oh, what am I going to share? Hello. But it is. We're recording this in January. People who are not watching it in January, we're recording it in January, and I do start every year. We started a recent thing, and one of the things I realized is I do dry January. I have fruit lots of years. And so this is a mocktail. And so when you ask me for a recipe, I was like, sure, I'll share a drink. It's a mocktail for fun. You know, the thing with mocktails is you can just it can just be a drink. Know it doesn't have to be for dry January. It can just be a refreshing drink. Yeah. And what I love is, you know, when I was reading the recipe, it has that element. It's not super duper complicated, but it seems like something special. And I think that, you know what? Parent doesn't need a little just time out kind of time to themselves to drink something that's maybe a little bit out of the ordinary, that, you know, just your water or your coffee and just give you a little, a little boost of something. So I love it. Yeah. Okay, so tell us, what are all the steps? How do you make your drink? I'll get mixing while we chat. So I love that you say that. It's not very complicated. I would say is unbelievably simple. So I keep all of this stuff in my fridge at any given time. So there are three ingredients. If you don't count the ice. The water. My choice is lemon Lacroix. And pomegranate juice, which I use. Just the brand. I have no idea if that's how you say that. And then a little bit of lime or other things you can do. You can get fancy if it's a mint into. Oh, okay. And have you tried it with other variations aside from, like, the lemon Lacroix or anything else that you find. So I drink more water than anybody probably should. Like I always have a bunch of different kinds, so we usually clean and sometimes lime and sometimes lemon, in a bunch of different brands. And then the other thing I put in there sometimes is, and this is going to people are using this at night and they have sweet stuff. You can put tart cherry juice in there instead of a pomegranate. And then you get that benefit that that's supposed to help us sleep. Well. I love that little inside tip too. Yeah. All right. Well, I can absolutely do those things. Seems pretty straightforward. I'm excited for my drink. And so I'd love for you to share your story. You've got, as you mentioned, many different hats that you've worn on the parenting side as well. And so tell us a little bit about what it was like for you. You know, let's start with just entering into being a step mom and kind of that transition. Can you talk to me a little bit about what that was like for you? Yeah, sure. I absolutely can. So it was not something that I woke up one day and was like, hey, this is my plan and how I'm going to go forward my life just like anybody else. You when you find the people that you're going to date or they become your forever partners or your long term partners, not all of it is like super strategic and intentional. It's, you know, just kind of what happens. It's in front of us. So the story really does begin. When I went to a happy hour with friends, and I was with a coworker and then we became friendly and then the relationship got serious, and it was just as a part of the story that he had been married and divorced before and had kids. And I was young, and it's that phase of my life where I was pretty sure that I could handle anything that came my way. And so I charged forward with all the faith and confidence that everything would be fine that you only have when you're in your mid 20s. So I just sort of figured I'm nice and I'm smart and he's nice and very nice and what could go wrong? And many, many people in my life, including my parents and my friends did try and voice some notes of caution and that this is a very famously challenging, position for people to be in. But it did. Still, it was like being hit with a two by four in the forehead when it began to get complicated and challenging. I was totally, totally surprised. And by that point, I had added kids to the family because it wasn't immediate. It was a couple of years. Well, you know, things, things come together. And so I had added kids to the family. And so I was committed. I was all in because that's when you when you do that, in my case, it's a lot harder to extricate yourself from the complication. Yeah. So, so, yeah, I can talk I talk about this a lot. So if there's anything specific you are curious about, just let me know. It's interesting because some of my step kids are grown. They're in their 30s. This is a long time ago, but it is a very, very famously complicated and challenging relationship. And it's also dramatically under supported. So one of the challenges for step parents is that you feel are you can you don't have too many of us feel isolated and unsure of who to reach out to for help, because you don't necessarily want to reach out and admit to your friends and your parents and, the people in your life that this is hard and that you're not sure you made the right decision, or what do you do with these fabulous little people that are in your life that are pushing all of your buttons? All of them? Yeah. I'm so curious because I hear you saying that that you know, that it can be isolating because it can be a difficult to kind of reach out or to that resource and support kind of just being readily maybe available was part of maybe kind of your journey because folks had cautioned you and like you said, you're kind of going in it like, I got this. You know, I think it's a problem. Is that was that maybe a dynamic of why it was even, you know, maybe more complicated or complicated it for you to read? I think so, yeah, I think definitely. That's the caution. One of the other things is the natural dynamic that the person who is your partner in your relationship is who you would normally talk to about the first things that are going on in your personal life, and talking to my husband about my challenges with his children, never worked out well for me. And when I work with step parents, I caution them to be careful with that because it's it's not it's not a great dynamic. You know, it's very hard. People are, protective of their children and their defenses. When when the subject comes up, I think we, we know that, right? The mother in the pop of her come out. And so it is helpful to find a third party and somebody who's removed from the situation, who can be in your corner and help you walk through that without putting stress on your marital relationship. Did you find that when you were trying it because it sounds like you were kind of trial and error, figuring your way through it? And so it was absolutely putting a strain on your relationship and kind of I'm curious, kind of your side of things and how how that felt as, again, coming into this, this family. Right. So it is it absolutely put a challenge on the relationship. One of the things that I tell people is I've been married over 20 years. And so one of the things that I tell people specifically to give my permission slip to question the relationship is I probably questioned if I was going to stay in the relationship a hundred times a day at different seasons. I was the wife, and I really not everybody feels this way, but I really believe that that gives you the opportunity to recommit to what you're doing, right? Everybody tells you marriage is hard, family is hard. And from my perspective, one of the things that can mean is you are deciding, okay, this is what I'm doing. And this is what I want to do. And that is so even I was questioning it. It's a way of strengthening my commitment and my resolve. Yeah, it sounds like in those moments really kind of challenging you having to make like an intentional kind of decision, know we're going to kind of work through this. If I'm hearing you correct and I'm going to work through it, then I'm going to do the work that I'm going to make compromises when they need to be made. Then I'm going to reevaluate. You know, if you I didn't grow up my step parents, many people do. The estimates, the data is really bad on this, but the estimate is four out of ten people. At some point in my life identify as a step parent. And so that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people walking around using this role. Right. But you don't often have representation, and you don't often know what this family is supposed to look like when you walk into it. And so as a person who was working my way through it, I look back now and I can see that what I was doing was redefining what my concept of family could look like, redefining what my identity within a family could look like. Because if you grow up with a fairytale version, which I didn't, I didn't have a fairy tale family. But if you grew up with a if you're holding on to like a fairy tale or a, you know, a picket fence, one marriage, two parents, two kids picture in your head and what you're living doesn't match that. There is some work to release that, to release that so that you can create a concept of happiness for yourself. Yeah. And I'm so curious kind of as you're going into that, like you said, having to kind of recreate, and maybe reframe your, your version of what a family, could look like. Yeah. Was there did you find that there were challenges in kind of finding your role in how you fit into the dynamic, even just as far as, you know, discipline and kind of what that would look like. Is that something that was a part of your. Oh yeah. Navigating. Oh my gosh, every single day, all day long all the way. And the today when I advise people if they ask me about this, I say, and I'll say this because you mentioned a couple of times I began by trying to fit myself into the family that had existed before I was there. But the advice that I give people, which is a reframe, a concept, right? Just a reframe of mindset in the way you're looking at it, is that if you can try to focus on creating the new version of the family. So try to not force yourself to to match the things that were there before you got there. Some of them you'll carry forward and honor and respect for the family unit. What was there before is really important to making this work, but being giving yourself the freedom to redefine it and build what you need. And so there was there was never a time where I always drop my stuff. Kids have a mom. She's a wonderful person. She loves them greatly. I was never actually trying to replace or, or be that person in their life. But they were a little, they needed all kinds of things. And so figuring out all of the things and how we work together was an ongoing process. And it never ends. And it's exactly like, I mean, really, this this does mirror itself in, family, a first family, a family that doesn't have parents. We reevaluate our roles with our children all the time. You know, the relationship that we have with a toddler or a newborn is completely different than we have with a, pre-teen or a young adult or college age kid like that. Those definitions are natural within within the relationship. Yeah. So I'm curious for you what did that redefining and like you said, kind of maybe creating and finding that new structure, that new kind of normal for you guys. How did what does that journey look like for you? What are maybe some examples of things that you intentionally kind of had front of mind of how you're going to to redefine? I would not give myself the credit of saying that I was going to redefine it in a proactive way, when I was actually going for it. Most of my story is, reactive and and figuring it out by the seat in my pants while I was doing it. And, and so I think that is hopefully helpful to the people who hear the stories, because my stories are mostly based on here's how I messed this up. And and based on that and what I learned from that with the people who helped me on the books I read. Here's how I suggest we try it moving forward. But, living with other people is really hard. I did not have kids when I moved in with my husband, and his kids were there part of the time, and I am super upfront with people that when, so they were four and eight when I met them from nine and five when we moved in together. And I was really, really I thought they should be quieter. I thought they should have better table manners. I thought they should eat the food they ordered at restaurants. I thought they should sleep in a little more on the weekends, and I thought they should be a lot less messy. And I was wrong about all of those things. It was one recent one and completely unrealistic expectations of what life with small children would be like. Newsflash being a child does not actually prepare you to be a parent. A completely different experience. And unfortunately doesn't. Right? Yeah, right. Like you think you know, you think you know and you don't know and you just you don't know. So we squabble a lot about things like chores and, and mess in the house. And it got to the point where we were working with counselors and it was a very big deal. It was a red line item like, this is really a problem for me. My husband had a lot of strong feelings about wanting to enjoy the time they had with his young kids and not have them do chores, and I had been told to let him set the rules and that I should not get involved and that I should back off and the way. And I don't tell people who are stepparents, to do that is an absolute rule, because I think it's nuanced, because when the when, when we came down to like, this is the end of the line for this, I was like, hey, you're not wanting to give your kids chores is not the same for me as me living in a house. It's always a mess because the kids are there. And so, you know, I can't, I don't care. I remember saying in a moment of just desperation, I don't care if aliens come down from spaceships and clean up the house. I don't care if you hire someone to bring it in. I don't care if you clean it up. My point is, I don't want to have to live with the mess. And I'm in this position where you've told me I can't speak up and do anything about it. And that's not a fair place for a stepparent or anybody to be in a family. I was hugely disempowering. And so that's where we began to shift to creating house rules, like, what are the minimum conditions? I needed to feel safe, secure and happy in the family and in the house. And one of those was, I need to be able to say that the house should be a certain level of cleanliness. Some of the time. Yeah. And I think you kind of mentioned that, that idea right. Of, of coming and, and joining this family and that there are so many times where it's like completely just any of your needs, any of your stuff. Put that aside. At the same time, like you said, maybe having a disadvantage or the fact that you haven't grown up with these kids, right? And they've got to be able to learn and, and know kind of their little quirks and, and what works best for them and, and even to, to prepare yourself. And you know, because at that point you're saying you said they moved in, 1995, 1995, I think is about where that was. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, even on the, on the younger is if you had five years that you weren't there for it to be able to kind of learn and develop and, and maybe get accustomed to the fact that kids are, are louder and, you know, so I it and so, Oh yeah, I love being quiet. You know, they don't have that sense that their voice is, oh my gosh, we have that advantage. Yeah, we had an open plan household and they would watch SpongeBob and it was like you couldn't get away from it. You can get away from it. And I was like, we need a house with doors and walls and barriers. It's like, now I understand all those houses that we're like, very. Yeah, exactly. So the you talk about it. So the I think I call it like the, like the, it's the culture, the culture in the first family that carries forward. Right. And we so we moved in together and then we had been together for a while. I don't I don't remember the timeline for this, but for however long we had moved in and we had moved in like apartment furniture into a house. And so we hit a point where we were buying new couches until the time where we bought the new couch. It had been a squabble, not a fight, but there had been like friction with where everybody was sitting in the house. So we have like the, you know, the pre-teen and the younger kid, and then we have some maybe with a baby at this point. And there had been like drama and squabble about where I sat and where the kids sat. And it was really interesting because it was frustrating. It wasn't a huge deal. It was frustrating, emotional. I never could quite put my finger on why it was, why it was happening or what was going on. And then we bought a new couch and or pair shoes or whatever, and we sort of picked the spots where we were going to sit on the new couch. And all of a sudden, as I was watching it, I realized that I came to the realization that, of course, they had had their spots on the other couch that were set up before I got there. And so the kids, the kids are kids. They're not going to be able voices. And I wasn't there. And my husband, none of us knew, none of us knew. And one of the I sure is, I've talked to probably 50 families who had a version of this happen in their family. They there was an unwritten secret culture that nobody was aware of that was causing causing resistance and friction. And the friction is there and the friction is very real, like unwrapping it and figuring out why is there can be tricky. And so all of a sudden, like we picked these spots, which is a weird thing that families do, right? You have your spot at the dinner table, you're spot in the car, you're spot on the couch, and and they pick new spots. And as I watched it happen, I was like, oh, wow, now that's gone, now that's gone. Now we all have our spots on this new couch and it just sort of faded away. So it's, you know, it's it's it's a it's a process. It's a process. And one of the things that makes it really hard, to be honest is that home is where we go to relax. Right. Is where we shared our armor that we wear all over the world. And so when you're living with people and you've got these levels of complexity, it's hard. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's such a such a great example because you're absolutely right. I mean even if we want to zoom out, you know we have like our spots. I remember being on the school bus. I mean like I said, you know, kind of the same bench right. Every single day or in, in classrooms. And so there is that idea that maybe you wouldn't even think about as being something that you're you're kind of having to navigate. Right, with within this family system and being able to kind of go, well, that makes sense. As far as you know, this is changing as as kids, we may not have the wherewithal, the language to be able to even identify. Oh, yeah. You know, this is this is my safe, secure space, right. And sitting here, that's that's my norm. And I know what to do. That's my routine. It's predictable. You know, I, I feel like so many even grown adults. Change is hard. Yeah, yeah. Just trying to then ask these kids to to change and maybe, missing that, that piece of that where it is a change. Even though on the surface it may look like just find a different spot on the couch. Right. Not a big deal that that there is maybe a lot more underneath that, that isn't maybe something top of mind for folks, right? It's like an invisible rule book. Yeah, yeah. So would you say that that because I heard you mention at the beginning that, some of maybe the growing pains that you're talking about wasn't something that you quite maybe experience right away. But it was a little bit later. Was that, you know, kind of the catalyst, like what started actually kind of creating some of that strain. Was it the addition of the new children? What did that look like? So the addition of the new children was welcomed in my family. So it did create it did create additional work. Fun fact adding children to your family simplifies nothing. Wonderful process. Delightful love for the kids doesn't make anything easier. I think so. There's a period, right? We all know this is a period of our relationship where everybody's on their best behavior and everybody's doing all the things. Thinking of the honeymoon period. That's true with the kids, too. Like, everything is new, everything is exciting. Every outing is new, all of those things. So I think that the shift from that to living the daily grind, is, is what, began to add the friction blended families can be very intense. All right. So the process and again the relationship with our kids and you know, you you date, you get to know each other. Maybe you move in together. There's like a sequence in a time. And then so if my family is any formula right. We do it in where I did not meet the kids for a significant amount of time. But once I met the kids, that was like a signal that it was like a very it was a serious relationship and everything happened from then very fast. So it was like then bam, bam, bam, all of these things back to back. And it was very intense. And so it's like a roller coaster. You're along for the ride. It took a little while for me to feel the pressure and have it catch up. And then when I had a kid, that was the that was the third kid for my husband. My step kids already had two other kids, so they were then that was the fifth child. And the more extended family life was complicated. Like you're looking at newborn eyes. Fuller. No, not maybe middle schooler. I mean, everything was going on. It was everything was all over the place. And so it was very, very busy. And busy comes with intensity. Sure. Yeah. So for you how did you navigate some of that friction as you mentioned, whether it was from the busyness or just what's going on. So a lot of it feels like you're holding on to the end of a train and a caboose, like everything is dragging on you trying to hold on. And I remember that feeling just trying to. But, I was surprised how, And I don't think this is unique to blended families. I was really surprised how isolating newborn parenting is. I don't know why this was so surprising, but, you know, 230 in the morning when you're walking a sleeping baby, no one else is around. No one else is. Your friends are not around like no one. It's very it's a little bit lonely. And all of the things that happen, then they all fall to you when the house gets, not to matter. One person to say, but they fall to the adults in the house, gets, the stomach flu. You can't, like, punt that to like somebody else. It's, like, happening to you, right? The lower diaper you're the one who's clean up. And so you're looking over your shoulder like, oh, wash me. This is so much more interesting to watch in somebody else's, you know, movie. And so that was a surprise. The challenge for us was definitely an age gap. So I was on a newborn schedule or a baby schedule or toddler schedule. My stepkids were older and they had other things going on. And so they didn't always they didn't always coincide. You know, they do. You take the baby to a little league game, you know, sometimes, other times it's like, no, I time going home. That kind of stuff, that kind of stuff was always challenging. We had a lot of challenges with communication and calendaring, which happens in every family, but it is more complicated when some of the people live in other houses, and it's mostly complicated if you're partners like mine and not good at calendaring. So how do you navigate that? Like you said, you different schedules. You know, maybe you're trying to calendar. Not everybody is a calendar type of person. You know how how was that for you? What did you find like a groove that that worked? Yeah, eventually. So we ended up it wasn't after the first baby was after the second baby was born, we ended up in marriage. I this is I phrased this as a joke. I offer this so that people can laugh. We ended up in marriage counseling over the family calendar. And it was like I was distraught. Distraught. And in my mind what was happening. I put all of the blame on my husband's ex wife, which turned out to be just wildly unfair. I thought that she was not giving him the information about what was happening on the weekends. I felt like every week was a surprise, and what was actually happening is that she was giving him the information and he was not sharing it. And so this is a weekly you're on there. Hammer's therapy works. It's a weekly standing appointment. We're in the office with the same person over and over again. And so it started with, hey, let's have a set time for the two of you to review what's on the calendar. So it was a and this is before Google Calendar. Today I use Google Calendar. Greatest invention. I live and die. I go. This was literally a printout on my office. Right, right. Exactly. And so it was like Wednesdays, you know, it was we were getting to see what's happening. And, and he would say, I don't think anything is going on. And then the weekend would come and it was like everything was going on and I knew nothing about it. And many things overlapped, and I was expected to be cheerful about it. And I was in a terrible mood. And so and we're meeting and we're meeting our meeting and it becomes very clear, very fast that he is the weak link in this process. And he knows this. I wrote, self-published a book about this, about the lessons I learned as a parent several years ago. This story is in there. It's been reviewed by all the people involved. It wasn't getting any better, is the thing. So we had this meeting where we were supposed to do this. We had all of these things. We had the public calendar with everybody with information, of everywhere we're supposed to be, which was actually I posted it to the to the refrigerator, and my husband and the kids were making jokes on it is what was actually happening. They were totally like, here's when, you know, here's when we tell jokes and here's our favorite show, like, nobody was taking it seriously. And two things happened. One was at some point, my stepson looked up at the calendar and he's like, oh, that's happening then. And he realized that the information was there was that was really that was like a banner day. The other thing that happened was that the therapist looked at me and he said, he's not getting better at this. Speaking about my husband. He knows every week he would come again. I'll do it. I'll do it. And then he would never put any information in the calendar. He just never would. And he just looked at me and he was like, he's not getting any better at this. And we can continue to meet and talk about this. But if he's not going to do it, you got to look and find other ways. And, I was lucky enough that my kids were old enough at this point that they knew that this was happening. This is open communication. My husband's ex wife and the older second just began to that directly deliver information to me that I needed so that I was not cut out of the news flow. That doesn't work in every family. There's not always that that is the way it happened in my family. Still to this day, my husband is mystified by the family calendar. Mystified. He thinks it is magic. Many, many years ago we were buying a house and I gave my calendar to the realtor, his assistant, to schedule a viewings, and my husband was Mr. five. He's like, how does she know when you're available? And I'm like, hi, welcome to the 21st century. I really I don't know how to help you here anymore. Really. Like, what do you how are you handling your calendar? Yeah, I don't have any I don't I don't know how to explain it. Right. I was really like I was like, what do you mean? Like, yeah. Yeah. Anything. I just wanted to to circle back to what you mentioned. As far as you know, we landed in marriage therapy because of our calendar and just normalize as a as a couples therapist. You are not alone, like, I, I would probably lose count if I if I had to, like, think about the number of couples where it is something where they're going there and you know they say just that I don't know. We're getting stuck on this particular piece and I don't know how to move through it. And it's it's causing a lot of friction. It's causing a lot of distress. And so, you know, if that is something, please, please know that you are not alone. That is that is something that happens. Because sometimes it can be really hard to try to get unstuck from those things that are really impactful. And you're like, when you're trying to do it just in yourself, because then emotions can flare up, you know, even if it's not intentional, defenses can go up and then we end up on a topic that's completely not not even about the calendar anymore. Right. And, you know, we're now yeah. Who didn't do the dishes or whatnot. And that's right. A lot of times it shows up like this was we knew what the fight was about and it was very concretely about that, but it shows up all over the place. And, communication. And this is something, you know, people try and say people will try and separate communication is some sort of separate issue that has to be worked on. But communication touches everything. And so, you know, that is and what we, you know, the idea of having a dedicated meeting where we were talking about the calendar with such a small idea. But I continue to be fascinated by the fact that the people in my life cannot read my mind. And so really being able like the very first thing I try and think about now when there's a conflict and popping up is like we're on the same page, like do we have the same information? And it's circling back and saying, what are we thinking? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Is is a powerful tool. Oh, absolutely. And I love that you mentioned that, that reading my portion, because I think most everyone kind of goes into it with that thought. I know I have, and, you know, especially when we've been in a relationship with somebody for a longer period of time, we kind of get comfortable. I'm going, you've known me for this long. You should know, right? That this is what I'm thinking or this is how I'm feeling about it. And it does kind of create this. This barrier. Because even if they could take a guess, you know, maybe one every five guesses is right. But your point we're complicated people. We're constantly growing. The way that we think about things is constantly changing. The way that we handle things is changing. And so if there isn't, like you say, kind of a consistent, intentional check in of like, hey, let's just make sure we're we're actually communicating about what's on my mind, maybe how I received it or how I meant it, right? That we we miss those approach entities to kind of move away from the assumption and really move into a place of curiosity where we're talking to this person. And I really like to know kind of what's on your mind versus me talking for you as you go through that. I think I realized I forgot one more thing that we had to do with the calendaring to really make the changes work. And that was in this post, sort of in the communication and boundaries. We set up a rule where I didn't know about something, I was not expected to participate and nobody could be mad at me. Right. So and there were some other things in there, like being positive in time, permission to make mistakes and stuff like that. But so if we got to the weekend and somebody had a birthday party and it conflicted with a baby's nap or, you know, whatever, right? I wasn't expected to drop everything and be a part of it, and I wasn't expecting to be anything other than annoyed by the fact that I wasn't. And all of that was okay. And that was a really important piece of that. Which is because otherwise, you know, if you want some of these things are cool, right? It's like dance shoes and your Little League games and fun things, you know, that people want to do and that you're dealing with. Like, what is my expectation of family and what's expected of me? And am I an okay adult in this family if I'm not going to all of the things, like, aren't I supposed to be the one that buys birthday presents, like all the gender roles and all the things like that? And that gave me permission to be like, okay, so within little time, his birthday party is not on the calendar and you're on your own, buddy. Go have a good time. Figure out the gift. I'm off to the playground with the little kids, you know. Yeah, yeah. So I know you had mentioned as well kind of a part of this journey for you, as as your kids are growing up, and, and we're kind of working through and figuring out that new normal, that kind of you experience a loss in your own personal, you know, side of things that that kind of added to what you were having to navigate that journey through. Is that correct? Yeah, absolutely. When my son was just about to. Yeah, just about two years old, my father died from a heart attack. So so that would have been two, five, like 11 and 16 were the ages of the kids. That's not right. So 16 and 12 is what I've been. So 12 and 16. So my dad died, and I, he was the in their full extended family. So there's four adults me, my husband, his ex-wife and her new husband. I am the youngest of those four adults, but I was the first one to lose a parent. So, this was the first, the grandparents had to pass away. And the first time as a family that we had dealt with that experience. And so I had to figure out how to tell my kids and stuff kids, the extended family. Yeah. Was that difficult to navigate in the sense that you just lost a person in your life. Yeah. You know a, a father, a parent, a parent figure in that sense while also still having roles and responsibilities. And your, your kids are still doing things in their life. I mean, was that did you say a little bit more about that? It's really hard. You can grieve anybody who's been through a grief of any kind. It just sort of dominates. It pushes you completely into the space you haven't been. And losing a parent. Is I guess probably every kind of grief is unique is what is the way I'll say that. But one of the ways that people describe is it is a club that you join, that a lot of people are in, that they you never wanted to. Right. Most of us will get there. It's the appropriate sequence of events that we will outlive our parents. Right. So that is a thing that happens. But, I reached out to every, every therapist that we ever that we've ever worked with. And I was like, what do I do? And that was very helpful. And the reason I bring that up is that I was asking for help for how to tell the kids, because I did not know how to do it. But the therapist, when I was on the phone, I was looking at looking over. I was kind of like you, but I don't know. You're looking at a camera. I was looking at a window in my kitchen. I was standing by my sink, talking on the phone, looking out a window in my kitchen, and he's like, well, how are you? And I remember saying to him, I was like, in a moment of, you know, take a deep breath and just be honest with the person who's on who, who is, whose job is how. Help you be honest with your doctors. Good advice, I said. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind because everything feels a little bit different. The colors feel different, the air feels different, the noise feels different. Everything feels different. And I share this with people anytime they're going through grief. Because what he said to me really helped me move through the process. He said, you feel different because it is different for your entire life. Your father has been a part of your life and now for the very first time, he's not. Every single thing is different. And so as I go, I am not losing my mind. I am living my life in a totally new way. Yeah. And well, to kind of in that moment, it sounds like validating and also normalizing like, yeah, it feels different because these things are like, this is uncharted territory. Yeah, exactly. So the little kids were little and they, you know, they process things in a totally different way than big kids. And he helped me understand how that was going to happen. They don't really they don't really know. The little one is little. He didn't really I didn't really know. And the big kids were, they were they were they were good. The way it actually shook down is that, my stepdaughter came over and got the little kids and took them over to her mom's house, where they stayed for the day while I went up and dealt with it. Which is one of my favorite, one of my favorite stories about a blended family. Like why, you know, it doesn't work out. Know a lot of blended families where you have these, tight connections, but there is no question there was no, there was no if, ands or buts. It was just like, yeah, we were out and and I felt very safe and secure that their little kids were with their siblings. And then somebody was watching over them and it was very helpful. Yeah. I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind an attention on because you've mentioned just this, this awesome community that was coming around and, and supporting you, and being kind of the ex-wife that, that was caring for your kids and how what were maybe steps that you intentionally kind of consciously took to be able to get to a place where you, you had a relationship like you like that was, as you mentioned, you were dropping off your kids and that really, you know, vulnerable space, moment of need. And it was able to be a place where you felt that they were safe and secure and that it was, you know, a burden kind of off of your already very full plate in that moment. So, yeah, this part of this dynamic, I will say that I did with a little bit of intentions. And my parents were divorced growing up. And now today, I knew one of them remarried, but, that was a dynamic that I was familiar with. The co-parenting across houses. And so from the very beginning, I had the intentional plan of not adding to the chaos to being a part of the solution at all times, and not adding drama. And I think that that's a helpful mindset is the way I'm going to go into this relationship. I'm going to be part of building a healthy, strong family for this and all of the children. Or is it going to or is it going to cause conflict? So I didn't always nail it. I didn't always get it right. Okay. And one of the stories I share about this, you won't know when you step in it. You don't know. You don't know when you do it. But then there's almost always times to of course, correct and make corrections. So when my step kids were little, I said something very, very glib about the benefits of, but I didn't like artificial sugars. And so people should drink full sugary drinks and not diet sodas. And they did what kids do, which is I went to the other house and they repeated it. And I heard that as children, I didn't expect it. It's going to happen. And I didn't have all of the information. And I heard back directly from their mom that she was like, I don't appreciate you saying that. And then she let me know that her mom is diabetic. So they drink diet soda in their house all the time. And of course you do, because then it makes absolute sense right now. I didn't have the information. And so, you know, what did I do? I apologized, I apologized, and I said, I'm really sorry because it was inappropriate for me to make such a global statement that no one should ever do this. This is wrong. This is absolutely every house and every family is different foods and different things and different preferences. And there's a million ways to feed your body. And so it was wrong of me, even though I didn't realize it, to put that pressure on somebody else and to to do that. But I didn't know it when I was saying, I was just saying what I was thinking in my kitchen. Yeah. I'm curious how how were you able to get to that place to make that repair? Because I feel like for many folks, you know, you receive kind of that feedback and instincts like knee jerk reaction is to like defend right now, you know, and, you know, sometimes people will double down or just kind of like, you know, what allowed you to to go to that space of saying, yeah, like that's on me, I own that. I'm so sorry about that. I think I don't I don't know that I have a great answer for this. Like, I think that it's a skill that I practice over the years, and not escalating like this is today talking to me in the future, like now. I've been trained as a mediator and I have, like, actual de-escalation strategies and things, but this is way before that. I just had an instinct of not making it worse. And there are probably a thousand other stories from me at that same age where I did Double Down and do that, but this was an instance where I was like, oh man, like I have aired, and I apologize. So but I just think that I lucked into it at that point. You know, there's, there's, there's others there's other stories where it's ridiculous, where I was taking a firm stand on things like rice-a-roni, you know, think I did the exact opposite. So. And it's hard it's hard to catch yourself in that moment, especially like you said, if it's something that's not, practiced every day or you've never seen it done before, it wasn't model that wasn't taught because they don't teach those things, you know, and your standards, they should. They really should. They really should. We do we really need to know a five paragraph theme? Or should we learn about interpersonal communication and how to de-escalate a fight? Because I think one of those is more common as an adult, I really do. Oh man, I could speak on that soapbox all day long. All right. Well, I'm I'm so, you know, thankful for you being willing to kind of share a little bit of your story. And I like to close things out with if you had access to a Delorean Gottago, you know, back to the past, is there anything that you would offer to yourself? And, you know, offer to anybody who's listening now that's maybe currently going through what you've experienced? I do. So when I started talking about being a stepparent, the question that people would ask me is they would say, if you knew then what you know now, would you do it again? And I think that's a really hard question, because I can't actually rule that time. And it puts me in a spot where I have to evaluate things that I've already done. So that's a hard question to ask. But as I try to answer that question in 5227 times, I eventually realized that the thing that I truly, truly could have done and wish I would have had the foresight to do is to do around a therapy myself, working on myself early on in the relationship and in the marriage. Because what is interesting is that all of these things parenting, step parenting, it is it is a weird time machine mirror onto your own childhood on your own upbringing, and it brings up all of this weird stuff. And so it is probably marriage. You know more about that than I do. The more aligned you are, and at peace with your own past and your own experience and the decisions you've made, the easier all of this stuff is, because it's just so much better than the better decisions that you make. And so that is the thing that if I honestly could do it, that's the thing I would do again, to now be stronger in myself. At that point, I don't think there's I think that if you think no one is ever there, if you people are actually going to do this, but like, what a beautiful thing it would be. It's like here I'm about to make a decision, that's going to impact the rest of my life. Like every single meal I eat, every single trip I take, all of these things. Maybe I spend six months doing, you know, self-development therapy on myself and then jump in them. And what I really appreciate about you saying that is, yeah, not only do I, I'm a therapist. I agree everything. You know, I think the benefit but also I think that what I've seen, what I've learned, even just on my own journey, is that we even though we may not have what, you know, we would consider big traumas in our life, things happen. We experience life and and parenting, as you mentioned, is, oh my goodness, such a mirror. And and things come up that we didn't even know were in there. But all of a sudden, you know, our our neck hairs bristle a little bit and we feel that tension. And as you mentioned, if we are able to seek that support, take a little bit of time to to go in there and explore that in a safe way. That gives us at least an awareness that when we feel that happening now, it's not just coming from a reactive, oh, I don't know what happened. I went from 0 to 100 like that. Now we're at least look up. Okay, that's that's what it's bringing up for me, that maybe a little bit of why it's landing. And so just kind of, I think empowers you with so much more knowledge, even just about yourself and maybe how your brain works. Right. And along that lines like when we don't do the work, and this is the we are more likely to expect that other people will take responsibility for the things that are happening, when really it's us that has to do it right. So it's like, if I'm exploding because I think that that's that's the only thing I can do. Right? And and I'm like, well, you should handle it differently. That is not a workable solution. Usually in a family like nobody else. So it has to get to the point where I can do and take ownership for the fact that, yeah, I'm going to explode and it needs to be safe too. I think this is one of the things it needs to be safe for people to have a reaction inside a family, like it has to be okay for like in our family, there was so much going on and there were times where I was so overstimulated. It has to be okay. So I have that come back. It happens. It happens to all of us. But yeah, it understanding that it starts from within is, is helpful, I love that. Well, and thank you so much for being, again willing to to jump on, to share your story, share some of the insights and, and things that you've learned. Because we don't have a manual, even though I wish we did. And also thank you for sharing this energy drink I had. I had a couple sips while we were chatting and it's it's refreshing. It is. So thank you so much. For for joining us today. And thank you everyone for tuning in. We will see you next time. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe social media's support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes, so make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe, and stay up to date on all things the real family. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food! Enjoy your eats!