How to Reparent While Parenting: John Bacon Gilbert’s Redemption Tour + Gram Gram’s Banana Bread Recipe

two and Marriage and Family Therapist, joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to share his inspiring story. John opens up about:

• Parenting while deployed
• His journey of recovery from alcohol abuse
• The intentional steps he took to build a stronger connection with his child

Discover relatable insights, powerful resources, and emotional stories of resilience. Plus, don’t miss John sharing his cherished Gram Gram’s Banana Bread recipe—a nostalgic family favorite that brings warmth and love to the table.

✅ Subscribe for uplifting parenting stories, actionable tips, and comforting recipes!

💬 What parenting challenges have you faced? Share your story in the comments!

🍌 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!

Find John:

 info@coupleconnectionsd.com

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Gram Gram's banana bread (with or without nuts) 

INGREDIENTS:

2 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour 

1 cup of sugar 

3 1/2 teaspoons of baking powder 

3 table spoons of oil

3/4 cup of milk

1 egg

1 cup of finely chopped nuts (optional)

1 cup of ripe bananas (mashed) 2-3 banana make 1 cup

1/2 brown sugar (hold for sprinkling)

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees

2. Grease and flour bread pan 9"x5"x3"

3. Mix all ingredients in a large mixing bowl on medium for 30 seconds.

4. Scrap the sides and pour into pan.  

5. Bake for 35 minutes.   

6. Pull from oven and sprinkle brown sugar on the top.  

7. Return to oven and bake for 20-30 minutes.  

8. Check after 20 with wooden toothpick. 
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Disclaimer:
The discussions and content on this podcast/YouTube channel are for general educational use and are not a substitute for professional mental health advice or treatment.

If you require support, please consult a licensed therapist. For emergencies, contact a crisis hotline or local emergency services.

The viewpoints of the host(s) and guests are their own and not indicative of the platform’s stance.

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a couples counselor for parents providing therapy in person in Murrieta, CA and virtual couples therapy in California. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!

For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

0:00

When the military told me that I had one year to resolve the, humanitarian challenges. I heard that as I needed to find a wife in a year. Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa, and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on the real family eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. Hey, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I'm so excited. We have John here to chat with us. John, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. Thank you. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I'm so excited to hear about your story. Also this recipe. But before we do that, for anybody who doesn't know you, could you introduce yourself for us? Absolutely. My name is John Bacon Gilbert. I'm a licensed virtual family therapist. I have a practice, in San Diego as well as Marietta. And, I'm just, really excited to be able to have the opportunity to help couples, as well as individuals with, challenges they're experiencing. Wonderful. So, shameless plug section for anybody that might need your services. In San Diego. Marietta, do you also do virtual as well? Absolutely, yes. Okay. So all of California. Yes. Wonderful. So how can somebody find your in your social. Right. Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram. Couple connection SB through email you can contact me info couple connection sb.com. Wonderful. And we'll make sure to have all those links for you on the show notes. So make sure to check that out. Okay. So tell me about this recipe. Why did you choose this recipe and kind of what we're going to be making today? Absolutely. Yeah. So you know a little bit about myself, my, my, my mom, was the in-home day care provider. Oh, was growing up. And she absolutely loved to make love to, you know, she would make all of my cakes. She would make, around the holidays. She would do dinner rolls and cinnamon rolls. Okay. And this is something that kind of just, you know, happened throughout the, throughout the year. It wasn't just specific around that particular holiday. Okay. And I always love the smell of it when it was when she was baking. Sometimes I remember coming home from school and you could almost smell it before you came in the house as, like, a freshman. Hannah. Bread. Yes. And it's really important cuz I have a, a 26 year old son, and he's made it our pasta recipe. Really? Oh, I love that. Okay, well, I'm so excited to to learn this. And so I definitely I think banana bread is also a staple in our home. But I think my recipe is a little bit different, so I'm super excited to try this one. So tell me what the steps are and I'll get things going while we chat today. Sure. Yeah, it's it's really simple. That's one of the reasons why I like it. Yeah. You really just take all the ingredients, with the exception of the the brown sugar, okay? And you toss it in the, in the bowl, mix it up for about 30s. And, you know, you use the pan, okay. And pour it in the pan. Wonderful. And so your oven what do you set your oven. Three 5050 okay. About how long do you normally, using go for about 40 minutes. Okay. And then I take it out and that's fine, but the, brown sugar, I kind of sprinkle the brown sugar, which is optional. Okay. I like things to be a little bit sweeter. Yeah. And, and then put it back in there for, you know, 15 to 20 minutes. Ooh. We use the the toothpick stick that in there. If it comes out clean, it's done. Yeah. And I love that. Such a different take again, that's very different from what I've ever had. Is that like like you said, that brown sugar kind of almost crust on it. Yes. Yeah. That's yummy. Okay. Well I can do that. I can plug and play. While I'm doing that, I love to hear, I know one of the stories that you're willing to share with us is a little bit about your journey in single dad life, and kind of, especially in the beginning, some of those struggles that you were kind of having to navigate. Right? Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about about that piece and, and what that look like. Sure. Yeah, I well, first of all, I never thought I was going to be a single dad. It all kind of just, just happened very quickly. You know, how quickly are talking. Probably within maybe within three might. Well, I got custody of my son when he was three. Okay. And so, my wife and I started to experiencing some challenges in the relationship. Really. You know, within six months of marriage. Wow. Yeah. And I was I was in the military, I was deployed, and, I, I always I remember having this. I found a postcard in one of my travels, and and it was a, a picture of, like, a sweater. Dogs, like husband, a team of dogs. Okay. And it said the view never changes. I'm sorry if you're not the lead dog with you. Never changes. And I remember I had my son's name and my wife's name there, and I really had this drive and determination to just be, know, to succeed, to to have a different life. Because at the time, I was deployed to Antarctica. Oh, yeah. So you you went real far out there. Absolutely. Really far. And, and so when I, when I came home, that's only from my deployment. That's when I really started experiencing some, some challenges. And, and we ended up, splitting up. And then not long after that, I, I said, you know, I want custody, and I, I at the time had orders to, air station, Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Okay. My wife was in Southern California. And so, like I said, I told them, I said, I'll take anything in Southern California. And not long after that, I got custody. And, and it was a challenge to, to go from a life of military where I'm expected to be available to the to the country. Yeah. And to be, you know, not have anyone really to care for him. So it was a big struggle. So were you still in the military by this point that you're you have full custody? Yes, absolutely. I wow. I was and I, I got what was called a humanitarian transfer. So they put me on land, and said, you have a year to kind of resolve this issue, so to speak. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And so but yeah, I had a family with them the whole time. Okay. So talk to me a little bit about navigating that, because parenting just in general is hard. When we start out now, you're adding on not only one, but several layers of things that are a challenge. And so I'm really curious, kind of what did that look like for you and kind of what was going on for you mentally, even? Yeah. You know, I think one of the things it's important to recognize this was my son was born in 97. Okay. And, and, times have changed a lot. And I'm a therapist today I have a different understanding about what a relationship looks like, but. But at the time, I really had this sense that my job was to be a provider. And so I wasn't really deploying a whole heck of a lot of emotional support. And so I had my main focus was being provider. And so when the military told me that I had one year to resolve the humanitarian challenges, and, I heard that as I needed to find a wife in a year. So really, I needed somebody to help help me with that process. Yeah. And, and, you know, I rose to the occasion because, again, I was focused on on being the best father I could. And part of that was, you know, taking the sacrifice if I needed to, to, provide somebody in his life that could they could help shoulder the burden with me. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit more about how how that narrative kind of came about for you? Like you said that when when you heard, you know, you got a year, it was a year to find somebody else, right? Kind of in that position to talk to me a little bit more about that. It was it was pretty. It was absolutely 100% rooted in my my necessity to provide. Okay. I really enjoyed being in the military. That was, I didn't make a whole heck of a lot of money, but that was the most money I had made in my life at that time. And I really saw it as a source of stability. Okay, that I would be able to provide medical insurance, I'd be able to provide, you know, a secure environment. And, so that's that's really the mindset I was in was like wanting to provide stability and, and give him as much, a safe space as he could have. Yeah. And so it sounds like in that mind frame going back and like you said, being able to go back into the military and provide in that way was kind of how you saw. Absolutely. It needed to go. Right. So walk us through that. Is that how it went? How did that kind of work out? Not exactly, not exactly. Now, as many, many people can probably imagine, you know, a marriage that starts out with that kind of pressure, there was a lot of pressure on it, and it didn't last very long. Yeah. However I did, I ended up getting stationed on land. Okay. And so that kind of renews that necessity to have somebody there. So I, I was a single father for, for quite a few years. Wow. Yeah. Was that difficult to to shift that because if as you're mentioning so was the, the next partner still in the picture during this year or were you doing that kind of also. Wow. Yeah. Know that that that next partner moved back to her hometown. Got it. So I mean, what was that like for you to kind of have to have that shift? You're going into it with like that mindset, as you mentioned, kind of provider, and now you're having to kind of put on multiple hats. I imagine. Yeah, it was it was a challenge. It was it was a challenge because I, you know, I'd like to believe that when we turn 18 that suddenly we get a, a new program downloaded in our brain that tell us when to be, you know, how to be an adult. You're an adult now, and then you have a child. Okay? You're a parent now? Yeah. I didn't get that download. I don't know if you know Apple. Mr.. Well, let me know. So we got one of those every time we had a new, you know, life transition thing. So it was it was difficult. It was, it was I have this joke that, well, he was he was born in December, and I have this picture of me holding him next to the Christmas tree, and people see it and they say, wow, it looks like a baby raising the baby. And I was like, exactly. Wow. So it was really challenging. So I really consider my son to be my best teacher. He really taught me a lot about life, about how to be a parent. You know, how to show up differently for him. So it was really learning the process. He was he was a teacher. Is that an insight that took you a while to get to a long time? Yeah. Yeah, I, I wasn't thinking that at the time. Yeah, yeah. At the time I was thinking like, you know, the important things that I had known, as, you know, essentially I was giving my son the relationship with me and giving him the things that I didn't have as a father. So I was trying to give him of parenting help and how I wanted to parent. Yeah. Can you say a little bit more about that. Yeah, absolutely. I, I grew up loving all sports. I, I especially loved baseball and from the, from the earliest age, I could remember just begging my dad to come out like catch with me, right? I had no interest in sports whatsoever. You know, I distinctly remember him oftentimes saying, not now, son, I'm busy now. And, I remember being about 13 years old, you know, tears streaming down my face because I just wanted to connect with my dad any way I could. And, and I said, I wish when I have a child, it's going to be different. He said that even out loud. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And and I remember when my son came, I, I really felt this sense of like, okay, I'm going to prove this. I'm. And, so when my son was really old enough to stand, I had a wiffle ball bat in his hand and throwing him wiffle balls in the house. Coached him all through the Little League. We won a couple of, championships together. And when he was 12, he said, dad, he says, I don't like baseball. You do? Wow. Yeah. And it was that that hit hard. It's it continues to hit hard every time I see. I can feel chills right now. Wow. Yeah, yeah, it really hit hard. And that's what I mean by, like, being the teacher that I realized in that moment that I had left my son feeling the same exact way. My dad left me feeling because my son wasn't interested in baseball. Yeah. So how where do you go from there? Because that's a pretty big blow. You know, it sounds like you went into kind of with this mindset, I'm going to be a dad that I didn't have. And, you know, for you, it sounds like it presented in that kind of I'm going to connect with you over sports and do all these things where, like you said, it sounds like, you know, his his feedback was this isn't necessarily for me what Lanza's connection. Absolutely. Yeah. It was a big eye opener. You know what? I one of the things I had always made an effort to instill in him is that we don't quit. And, so I, you know, he wanted to drop out of seasons before, and I said, now just just finish the season. And when he told me that we were in the middle of his final year in Little League and I said, you don't have to go to another game. Wow. That's that's a big difference. Especially, like you said, if you have that mindset of we don't quit to being able to receive that, I'm grateful that I was able to receive it. Yeah. Grateful that I was in a space in my life that I was able to hear that message and recognize that that I had made a similar mistake and I didn't want to do that. So it was about finding ways to connect with him that he wanted to do. What do I look like? How did you make those connections? Yeah, really. You know, I'd like to tell you that at the time, I sat down with a pen and paper and I asked him how to connect. Yeah, that's what I would suggest today. That's the hindsight. But really, what it looked like was me being more available to him. He loved sushi. And so we would go on these, sushi dates. Okay. And, he really loved food in general, but, you know, sushi was one of them. And so we would go out to dinner often, you know, he, really enjoys video games. And, you know, up until that time in life, I really was against him having even a video console in the house. Okay, yeah, I thought so. That was a skill or use of time. I ended up buying him a video console and, allowed him to, you know, kind of explore that part of his life. And so really just asking him for the feedback of what what how does he want to spend his time? Yeah. I'm so curious how you were able to make that transition, because I feel like, especially some of the older generation I've heard that from, you know, now, now adults kind of with this idea that asking for feedback or even being open to the idea that children can teach us as an adult is such a hard concept for some people to be able to accept or, you know, be open to. And so I'm so curious, like, for you in your journey, how did you get to that place to be able to kind of almost have the humility, it sounds like, to just see those things. Yeah. Interesting choice of words that it was humility. Yeah, it really was. And and again, I didn't feel that at the time. I really felt broken. I really felt broken because like, everything I had thought, you know, I mean, mind you, when I had my son, I went to parenting classes. As you know, I'm 21 years old, going to parenting classes. Wow. Really, really sort, understanding and and wanting to have, be able to set that, that intention for him. So it was really, I just realized I forgot your question. Yeah. Just how you were able to get to that place of humility. Yes, yes, yes. You know, I, I would say that it's probably, One of the, one of the things that we haven't talked about was my struggle with alcohol. Okay. And, right around that age, it was about ten years when I stopped drinking alcohol. Okay. And so this was when he was 12, and so I, I had not been drinking for a little while and had gained more humility through that process. Wow. That, you know, it's always been a challenge. One of the things that's really tough I really struggle with is asking for help. It wasn't something that my dad or anybody ever said. Don't you dare ask for help. It was something that I think was just implied. And I took it. Yeah, yeah. For you, what were some of the ways that it was implied? Because I think that's that's such a key piece that I heard so many parents ask for that. We kind of get into this, this tunnel vision of not asking for, yeah. That's that's a great that's a great question because I really I think some of the things that my dad would do, I would, I do remember asking for help. Okay. And quite often I was denied him, you know. Yeah. I remember specifically. So my dad's not interested in sports, very interested in, computers. Okay. And so I remember asking my dad for a computer to connect. Yeah. And he bought me this. Broken down. Like, I think it was like a Commodore 64. Okay, so really, really early. Yeah. World. And, think I said, dad, you know, how do I get this thing working? And he says, well, you gotta figure it out. And that's how he learned. Yeah, he learned by figuring it out. And my intention for that was I wanted to sit down. Let's do this together. Yeah I'll watch you. And that didn't happen. Yeah. And and it's interesting because I noticed myself at a certain point in my son's life, he would ask me questions and I would say hey we've got this amazing tool called Google that. Yeah. So I was essentially doing the same thing to him in a different way with, you know, the use of technology. And I think what's so interesting that you mention that is the fact that I find so many of us parents, I do it myself, where sometimes I miss those bits for connection because I don't necessarily see it in that lens. Like like you said, whether it's, hey, can you teach me how to, you know, power this computer, or asking a question, wanting to have a conversation. You know, sometimes it can be really easy for us as parents if you live, you know, imagine you also as a single day. Imagine that was really busy. And so then, you know, kind of see these things and, and remember that this is them trying to make that connection can be really difficult. I imagine those those I'm glad you said that. Those missed IDs for connection, are so vital. Yes. So vital. I, I can't tell you. I'm certain I miss so many of them, but I, I'm getting better at it. And that's been through the humility of my son, you know, having to I continue to have a relationship with him. You know, just recently he asked me, he says, dad, can I. I want to come up to your house, and I want you to help me paint the inside of my jeep. Well, and I'm, like, thinking in my mind, I really don't want to do that. That's not how I envisioned spending my Saturday. Yes. And, you know, and my my inclination is to tell him how to do it. Okay. So but then I realized it's not about getting it done. It's about the connection that he's craving. And so he came up and we painted it together. It didn't end up being maybe more fulfilling than when you initially kind of heard let's this team definitely. Yeah definitely. I think I think definitely for him more so than me. Okay. You know, I have I have a two year old son is as well as him. And so I'm, I'm kind of feel almost pulled in two directions having the, the, the mindset that the missed opportunities I had when my older son was young and not wanting to duplicate those mistakes of my gender. So, yeah, I mean, how do you navigate that balance, like you said, of of not only multiple children, but you've got like you said, they're they're quite different ages. So they're into different things. So it's not one of those, you know, we can do it all together and have everybody, you know, come by. I'm right. So how you how you navigate that balance. Well part of it's built in my older son lives about an hour away. Okay. But when he comes to visit or I go to visit him, my younger son comes with. Okay. And they both, you know, my older son loves seeing my younger son. And my younger son gets a big smile on his face and says his name and goes running to him. Oh, wow. And so it's it's kind of a special bond. Yeah, that sounds really special. So I'm really curious, and I'd love to go back, if that's okay with you kind of talking about, your, your journey as far as alcoholism in conjunction then with also single dad and and kind of did that play a part in some of your journey. How so like like resorting to alcohol because I was stressed or or overwhelmed. It could be that or even just maybe impacting, you know, going back to the connection where some of those things were lost because because the, you know, the alcohol was maybe the, the choice in that moment. Like, what did that look like for you? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I can remember there were times early when I, when I first got custody of him. Okay. My focus was, you know, I knew that I was supposed to read my child a bedtime story, okay? And I would catch myself skipping pages so I could hurry up and get through the story because I wanted to go and take some time for myself to recharge with alcohol. Really? Yeah. And so how as far as, like, your sobriety and your journey there was that difficult to navigate, getting to that place where you were able to overcome and able to get to that place of sobriety, while also having some of the just routines, stressors of being a parent and having to, like, show up because I imagine, you know, with between withdrawals and just cravings and everything and having to do that in conjunction with being present as a parent, it was definitely a challenge. Yeah, it was a challenge because I had the awareness, having a sober mind that, that I needed to be more present, but also knowing that I needed to treat myself. I needed to take care of myself and, and, you know, and treat my soul. Yeah. And so it's almost like that, another one of those double lines where it's like, okay, you need to spend more time with your son. You get the clarity of that. But then also the recognition and the realization that I also need to take care of myself. Yeah. You know, it's like that when you fly. They say you're traveling with children. Put your mask on first. I always use, No, I'm not doing that on him first. Yeah. But that's that's really helped me to understand probably more now as a therapist and understanding that, if I'm not, well, if I don't take care of myself the night before, getting a good night's rest, prepping for my clients the next day, you know, going into it with really this intentionality, I'm not going to be that great. Yeah. I mean, to have even just going back to that, maybe our word for today about humility and being able to say that, that, you know, if if I can't necessarily take care of myself, I don't I won't have the capacity to be able to show up in the way that I really want to. Not only that, but thinking about how do I demonstrate that to my son? So then he understands it's okay to prioritize yourself. Yeah, that's a great a great point. Was that helpful for you as far as that reframe? It was an he's yeah. He's doing a great job with it. I'm I'm already reading books now. So my son, my younger son, that, you know, one of the lines in the book says it's okay if I hurt someone's feelings when I say no. Yes. What a concept. Right? Right. It's not something that was ever driven into my mind as a young child. It was always like, let's say that you're going to hurt somebody feelings. You're going to hurt someone's feelings. It's a disappointment. You know, it's going to cause something else in someone else. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Causal I guess I control other people's feelings. Yeah. And man when we get in that mind frame, it gives us so much control over other people's emotions or vice versa. If we're kind of giving that power away. Right. And that oh you made me feel these different things. Right. Gosh man, if we all had that super power, I think the world would be so much different. It would be, it would be. But I think it starts, you know, it starts really? Yeah. You know, I mean, a little personal development right now and it, it it shows this, this diagram of what we look like in our, at our young age. And it's kind of it's almost like a horseshoe. Okay. This is our subconscious is open to anything at that point. Yeah. And so right now at this age, this is when children are taking in that, that, that, shape their paradigm, shape the way that their mind works. Yeah. To say, oh, I have to say yes, even though I want to say no right now. So I'm super curious, you know, even along those lines because you could have very easily rested in that. Like this is what I was shown this is what shapes my paradigm and kind of just, you know, wash your hands of it and said, well, this is all I can do. And it sounds like, you know, I heard you mentioned going out and and attending classes and trying to gain information, and it sounds like a real drive for something different that you maybe didn't know what that different look like. But hey, I'm going to search it out. And so I'm curious, how did you get to that point that, like you said, instead of just kind of resting? Well, this is all I know. You know, I really I've always been hungry to understand. I've been. I've been hungry. You know, curiosity. I want to, I had a guidance counselor in college, and so, John, she said you're like a windup toy. I just want you up and pointing in the right direction. You're going to achieve whatever it is you need to even I understand that to. I like to have guides. I like to know where I'm going. I like to, you know, get clarity. And so I've always been kind of, you know, I read a lot of self-help books, a lot of personal development books that really, kind of quench that thirst within me to do better. And really, what I've, what I've come to understand in all the classes, all the all the trainings, all the books is our family, our children. Those are the conversations that need to happen. You're asking them, what do you want? You know, not just what do you want? Because most of the time, what do you want? Well, I want to play station right? I want a pony. Right? Yeah. But asking more directed questions like, what is it that I do that leaves you feeling like, what is it that what events or what way that I talk to you? What what activity that we do together leaves you feeling special? Yeah. No more questions along those lines of just getting to stepping outside of the material world. Not things, but actual memories. Yeah, feelings. What I love about that, too. Not only is it an open ended question, but it it's going beyond that. How is your day? Wearing it makes it really easy for our kiddos. Like fine okay. One word and they're gone. You know, and it doesn't necessarily give you the consent, nor does it really allow an opportunity for going back to kind of venture connection. Versus like you said something that's what's going on in your, in our world or you know, what feedback that you can give me as far as how is this landing for you. And, and doing that, you know, in a way that it sounds like really trying to cultivate a relationship versus just kind of resting on you're my kid, I'm your parent. So naturally we have a relationship, right? Right, right. Yeah. I'm supposed to interact with you this way. Yeah. It's really important to get their their feeling. Yeah. You know, I think most parents will be surprised. I was surprised when I started ask those questions. Yeah, yeah. Was there something specific that surprised you most? Time. Time. My my my oldest son. He just wants my time. He wants my appreciation. You know, he wants my acceptance. Not long ago, he. Well, I guess it's actually been a couple years now. He called me up, and he says. Daddy says I'm going to get a dog. And in my head, I'm thinking this is the worst idea he's ever had. He has no business owning a dog. But what came out of my mouth was that's great, son. You'll be an excellent dog owner. And he is fabulous. Wow. Yeah. And it sounds like in that moment really kind of challenging yourself to move away from that instinctual kind of like judgment of all the ways I could go wrong. Absolutely. And I think that's part of what that fear that comes from parents. You know, I can remember being, I think I was about 13 or 14 years old, and I told my mom I had a drafting class in junior high, okay. And I came home. I said, mom, I want to be an architect. My mom had always told me she was like, you can be anything you want to be, just whatever you put your mind to. And when I told her that she said, oh thanks a lot of college. You got to be really good at math. And I was terrible math. Yeah. And that was really, I think the first time I ever heard of college, it wasn't something that was discussed in her household at all. And that just kind of like smash it down. Oh yeah. I recognize times when I've had conversations with my son about that and he says, oh, I want to do this or do that. And my inclination is to protect him from being disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that and I love that you said that because often times when, when these things happen, it's not that we're going into it as parents with this like evil mindset. I want to like bash my child's dreams. I don't think that I've really ever met a parent that but that often it does come from that place, like you said, of trying to protect them. And it doesn't necessarily land that way because, you know, we're human, we're individuals. And, you know, that there has I think there needs to be that space for curiosity. There needs to be that space for possibility. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I always joke sometimes with my couples that come in and I say, I've never had a couple come to me and say, John, we just had a newborn baby. Can you help us groom up? Yeah, absolutely. My office is filled with people who had difficult childhoods, were misunderstood and weren't treated the way they wanted to be treated. Yeah, that's why I really love kind of. Again, you taking it back? And I think that's such a great little nugget. I'm taking it back to the kiddos and really getting that feedback and having that open dialog instead of looking at them is, you know, your subordinate. No way am I going to take your feedback right now. Your kid would, you know, I feel like it's so easy to kind of get trapped in that mindset, but really to have a conversation with them and a respectful one where they're getting to see that, hey, like, if my parents think I'm worth asking my opinion. Yes. You know, talking to me like a human, gosh, what does that mean about when I go out into the world, you know, and what I deserve, right? Yeah. I mean, I was raised in the era of children or to be seen and not heard. Yeah. And I was spanked. My mom broke many women spoons all over my butt. Very wooden spoons that we're spending with right now. Oh yeah I know the wooden spoon. Yeah. And, And really what, that I really feel like it, it crushes a lot of creativity. It really smashes down. That hurt inside of me. And it says less now. Why not me. Yeah. Yeah yeah I can remember in early in, in my life we would drive from California to Oregon to visit family. And my dad's objective was to get there as soon as we could. So you could brag about how quickly we got there. Yeah. And, you know, what that was like for me was that I got to go to the bathroom. Okay, couple more exits and then ten miles, 15 minutes down the road that I still had to go. Yeah okay. Just hang on, hang on. Next. And what that what that taught me. I didn't have this conscious thought then. But what it taught me when I reflect on it today is when my word wow. Yeah. I'm not valued. It means nothing. And and it's hard. You know that's a, that's a I wouldn't say it's a constant battle. It's a battle that I'm, I'm gradually overcoming but it's still there. It's still in my mind. It's my really worth it. Yeah. And again I mean I think that's a perfect example where it doesn't necessarily have to be something huge, kind of life altering where you look at and you go oh yeah that's where, that's where it all went wrong. Yeah. You know, it could be something like you said, where it's that that subtle kind of I've got my mind elsewhere, and I'm not necessarily listening to the little ones in my car in this instance. And what what messages does that send to them? Even the really little ones that could become very big pieces of your your core beliefs about yourself? Absolutely. Yeah. That is you nailed it. Yeah. I'm so curious when you kind of made that shift, kind of going back to that, that self-care piece. And was there a particular moment that you were able to kind of move from, from maybe, you know, resting on some of these ideas to being able to say, I am worth it. I don't know if there's any moment in any particular shift that occurred. It's been a gradual transformation. You know psychologist William James says that we we can have something called a educational experience, which is like over time it's not a sudden. Yeah. No massive change that we experience right in us. But it's just over time. And that's, that's really what's been happening for me over the years. It's been this, just having faith, just pushing. Okay. Let me try this. Let me put this this thing right here. This is super. This is not something I would have never done. Yes. You know, but when you invited me to do it, I was like, yes, yes. You know, and this is what the personal development I'm going through right now is, is saying it's like when an opportunity presents itself. Try it. Yeah. You know, I mean it could be terrible. I could, I could never do another one. Hopefully not. Or it could be amazing. Yeah. And you know, and that's, that has been really the biggest challenge for me is like. Almost almost like, you know, a lot of times I'll ask clients when they hear self-doubt, when they experience self-doubt. So whose voice is that? Oh, wait, that's your mom's voice and how long you've been gone? She died in 87. Oh, yeah. And so it's like going back to that programing that, that, that, that, that update in our systems. The parent that installed this idea inside of our head that says we're not worth anything. We've long since dismissed anything they've ever said. We may not even talk to them. But the program is still there that we're not worth it. And we continue willingly dragging that with us. Right. This bag baggage so heavy. And just worthless. Put it down. Yeah. And I think just remembering that idea that even no choice. Right. Is you making some sort of a choice. And so being able to kind of figure out well in this moment what choice do you want to make. Do you want to keep like you said dragging it around or are you ready to put it down. And really again you may not know the how to we may not have the instruction manual because we don't get one. There are resources. There are ways to kind of at least try to start figuring it out. And like you said, it may not be like an overnight switch. And it sounds like even having some patience for that, maybe a little bit of compassion for it. Well, but it is a journey in putting. It sounds like kind of one foot in front of the other and and really starting to walk differently, right? Yeah. That's exactly, exactly what it is. Just humility again. Yeah. Where do the day where does the day. Having that humility to just take a few steps and say, you know what's going on here? Yeah. Reevaluate. I'm a big believer that if we just filled the room with a bunch of people that all agreed the same way, we're not going to learn a lot. Yeah. But if we filled the room with people that have different viewpoints and we explore them. Okay. How to get there. And combine them we run the risk of learning a lot and growing. Absolutely. And I think what I really liked about what you said there is that what's going on here. Really taking a look at it from that place of curiosity. Again another word of the day. This, you know, this episode sponsored by, but you know, that curiosity, what is going on here and doing in that way of not judging it already before it's even happened? It really kind of saying, hey, I'd like to understand more. What, you know, even if it's emotions like what, what is this emotion trying to tell me in this moment. Right. Yeah. You're exactly right. And you know we, we we change our minds. Or you know everything. Everything changes. Yeah. I a very young age, my when we moved from Oregon to California, we moved in with the family briefly while we were waiting for our house to become available. And this family tried all the different types of foods. Okay. And they try and, I don't know, brussel sprouts. I did not like brussel sprouts. Like, there's many people that would agree. I have to tell you, I love them. Now. I didn't I didn't give them a shot. I think it was about 5 or 6 years old. I, I swore I'd never have another brussel sprouts in my life. Yeah. It was probably about maybe 5 or 6 years ago. I, I tried one, and I was like, what? This is actually really good, right? Yeah. And so that's, you know, another example of going back to the drawing board. Okay. Do I like this now. Not just swearing it off that this is this isn't this isn't for me. But having that curiosity that that willingness to try something. Yeah. I imagine that's also useful kind of in the parenting world in the sense that as your kids get older they're likely also evolving likely changing. And so maybe what landed for them is a way of connection or an interest, even at the beginning when they're five is very different than when they're 25. Absolutely. Yeah. When you, you know, you're buying Hot Wheels and or Barbies for your for your child when they're younger, they're not going to like it so much when they're 25. Yeah. Yeah. And so I imagine if you start like if you start the curiosity and okay, I and I know everything and you kind of rest on that. Oh I know what they're going to say. I know what they're going to do. You know, it sounds like you've also kind of missed some of those changes that maybe hey, I didn't like brussel sprouts before, but absolutely. Now I really do. Right. We continue to evolve. You know everyone does. Yeah. And so let's just say that our children won't even as they become adults. Yeah. If there is so one of my favorite questions that I like to ask is if you had access to a Delorean, is there anything, if you could go back that you would kind of tell yourself in preparation for the single dad journey that you, you had to navigate? Yeah. I really feel like if I were to go back. I probably would have given up my career and just focused on being a dad. Wow. Just focus that on, you know, I mean I kind of essentially I did do that later on when my son was, was he was much older and I had started a, I completed my undergrad program and I went right into my graduate program, and he experienced the challenges. Okay. And I got real clear. I got, you know, real clarity that I needed to put my career on hold. And I went into a job that I didn't really, really like. I went into it. Sorry if there's any guys that you like I was bored out of my school and but ironically enough me working in that IT industry for three years helped me to get the internship that I wanted. Wow. Yeah. And so I was like, that's that's probably like a big moment for me is like when I'm experiencing something that's discomforting. Continue pressing on. Maybe there's a reason. Maybe there's a purpose for it. Yeah. Yeah. I think what I heard in there too is also being able to be open to that mindset shift and reframing that, you know, you could have, I imagine, got really stuck in there of, you know, these are things that are happening to me. You know, this isn't what I wanted. Yeah. My dreams aren't coming true. Right. Rather than being able to kind of see, you know, especially now, like, gosh, that helped me. Like, even though I was bored out of out of my mind, you know, look at what I was able to do because of that experience. You're right. And I wish I could tell you that I was right there the whole time. I was not yeah, I was not. But looking back, I'm able to see. Wow. It's really amazing that, you know, that I got that experience, you know, going back to, like, basically giving up my career for him. For family. Yeah. Time going back to time again. You know what most people, I think for myself. Time is valuable. Valuable to me. Yeah. And that's, I like to connect with my spouse. What time? Needs to be quality time. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think our children are different. And I think that's such a quick reminder that like you said, that our kid is or, or just that they're human too, and they're not necessarily any different than us. And smaller version. Just a smaller version. They may have you know, it may come out differently, but it's not necessarily the core of it. A whole lot of change. Rest of us are just those those tiny kids that want to feel loved and respected and safe. Right. Yeah. It's like, you know, one of the, one of the kind of principles in this, in psychotherapy that I use really focuses on, we all want to felt sense of security. Yeah. You know, at our core, that's what we want. And so, people are going to experience it differently. Yeah. Absolutely. And going back into that checking in, is this landing for you in that way so that we can adjust as needed to just really make sure that whomever we are, you know, engaging with at that moment in time is able to, like you said, feel that that sense of security in a way that they need it. Right. There it is. Yeah. And the way that they need. Yeah. Because, you know even there's lots of twin studies out there. Yes. And you know, two twins grown up in the same exact household want two different things. I reference that all the time. Much on my clients as well because it's it's a perfect example. And sometimes people go, well, you know, they saw the same thing. And, you know, we're really good at comparing ourselves to other people. Well, you know, if, if, if it wasn't difficult for them, then, you know, might be something wrong with me that I'm having such difficulty. Right. But again, those studies show that it's not necessarily about kind of all of the, you know, external things. You could go through something completely the same in every way, shape or form and still have a very different experience because you're a different human. Absolutely. We're all different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you mentioned being a learned person, like education. Were there any resources, books or support services that you found during your journey that were really helpful that any, you know, parent who's maybe kind of in a in the same boat. That you would recommend. Yeah. I, I really loved the Four Agreements. Okay. I, I haven't read it exactly. This is now a couple times that it's come up. So that's probably time for me to read it again. Okay. I really love that book. I think the one that really started to shift my mindset very, very early around like 2008 was a book called Change Your Mind and Your Life Will follow. Oh, wow. Can you give like a little brief synopsis. Right. Yeah. It's it's really about the, the understanding that, you know, like we talk about like wanting to protect our kids from falling or, you know, getting hurt like I have this, this, this kind of, this little story that I like to tell it. My son, I didn't want him to ever get hurt. So I would, like, follow him around his life. Yeah. And when it looks like he's about to lose bounce, I'll toss a mattress under him so he doesn't feel the weight. Yeah. But what I realized was, when I do that, I'm taking the opportunity from him to experience pain. And for him to experience his own understanding, have his own consequence. And so this book really helped me to understand that I was over functioning. And as long as I'm over functioning he is going to continue to under functioning. Yeah. He will not learn. He will not adapt. He will not grow. And it really helped me to kind of divide like you know I like this I like to share this visualization that, I'm a whole person. And if I see myself as a human and you're a whole person and you're in the loop. You know if we're in a relationship we don't become one giant. You know you have to have really fast tips to get that, keep that thing off the ground. You know who I'm a who live. And having really detachment having that you know we want to be together with the person we want to be with our family, our, our children want to be with us. We don't have to create this over dependance. Yeah. It sounds like even going back to again that idea of putting your mask on first, that it it's okay. And it almost sounds like necessary for you to kind of have your own, your own hula-hoop, your own identity. To be able to not only give you opportunity to thrive. It also sounds like being able to leave space for them to find their own way to thriving as well. That's it. Yeah. That's fine. Find a find a new way that works. I mean, that's all. That's how our how our society has been based. You know, we had chalkboards, now we have iPads. You can write on the iPad and it projects to them. Know we have those smart boards that they have that all came from. Wait a second. Why are we using this stuff. And it's you have to take time to reset the whole class. Yeah. Yeah. Curiosity. Yeah. Absolutely. And allowing allowing that space like you said, for them to develop their own thoughts, their own problem solving skills, it sounds like. Absolutely. And, you know, empower. Bring them that. Hey, you've got this. It may feel uncomfortable for both parent and kids to be able to kind of step back a little bit and have more of that hands off. Yeah. And it might may hurt the heart a little bit to see them fall. But being able to, to really kind of look at that bigger picture, like you said, that there, there is purpose in that. We're creating and cultivating that environment for them to be able to to grow into these, these thriving human beings. And I feel like most parents, you know, when you ask them, that's what they want. That's exactly what we want. We just have our idea of how we're going to get you there. Exactly. And oftentimes it's not accurate. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that. And I thank you so much for being willing to kind of share that story with me. Share this recipe. It smells delicious. So I'm so excited to pop it in the oven. And then my little brown sugar crumble on top of it. Well, thank you so much for being willing to do this. I know it was out of your comfort zone. So thank you for stepping out. Thank you. It wasn't it wasn't painful. Yes. Did it? Thank you for the opportunity. Yes. Absolutely. All right, folks, thank you so much for tuning in today. And we'll see you next time. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe social media's support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes. So make sure to check them out and make sure to follow. Like, share, subscribe and stay up to date on all things the real family eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food. Enjoy your eats!