Fostering Empathy in Mixed-Race Families: Sara Hall on Parenting + Flavorful Martabak Recipe

In this compelling episode, Sara Hall—Spanish teacher, mom of two, and author/podcaster—joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to discuss the complexities of raising mixed-race children. Drawing from her own experiences growing up in a mixed-race household, Sara shares how she navigates parenting challenges, especially when her children face situations she can’t personally relate to. She highlights the steps she’s taken to foster inclusivity, empathy, and a deeper understanding within her family.

Alongside this heartfelt conversation, Sara shares her family’s recipe for Martabak—a delicious dish that reflects her cultural roots and brings the family together at the table.

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💬 What's been a parenting challenge you've faced? Share your story in the comments!
🫔 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!

Find Sara at:
raisinglegaciespodcast@gmail.com
FB: @raisinglegaciespodcast
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/raisinglegacies?
Journals: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B078VHL9MY
Two Homes: https://a.co/d/0D9mOFB
Dos Navidades (Spanish Edition): https://a.co/d/4szCyG3

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Martabak Recipe

INGREDIENTS:
1lb of ground beef
2 cloves of garlic
3 eggs
1 bunch of scallions, sliced
1 package of egg roll wrappers
Salt and Pepper, to taste

INSTRUCTIONS:
1. In a wok or skillet, drizzle 1 tbsp oil over medium heat. Add the beef and stir in the garlic, salt, and pepper. Cook, stirring often and breaking up the beef, until browned. Once Browned, crack the eggs into the mixture and stir until the eggs are thoroughly mixed and cooked. Remove from heat and let cool.
2. Once thoroughly cooled, mix scallions into the beef.
3. Place about 1/4c of beef mixture in center of egg roll wrapper. Roll like a burrito.
5. In a deep skillet and add 1c oil over medium heat. Fry the folded Martabak until browned and crisp on each side, about 3 minutes total. Place on towel lined plate.

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Resources:
That’s What I’m All About Course (A guide through Cultural Identity Journal): https://raising-legacies1.teachable.com/p/that-s-what-i-m-all-about1?

Disclaimer: The content provided on this podcast is for informatio

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a couples counselor for parents providing therapy in person in Murrieta, CA and virtual couples therapy in California. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

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For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

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Transcript

0:00

That was really hurtful to hear that my then second grader was having an issue with a child saying, I don't believe in Black Lives Matter. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on the real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. All right, everyone. So my guest today is the lovely Sarah. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. My pleasure. I'm so excited to be here. Yes, I am so excited to hear your story. But first, for everyone who does not know you like I know you, which is really well. Can you introduce yourself for me? Of course. So I am a mom, teacher, creator, and really awesome friend. And I'm trying to figure out life and be who I am as a human. Apart from being an educator, being a parent. Because I feel like those roles consumed me in a way that I finally had to start recognizing that I was a person before those things, and I am a person in addition to those things. Those things were the only pieces that defined me. So that's sort of what my journey has been all about, and helping other people recognize that they're not alone in this parenting journey. Parenting is really hard. And for those of you who are parents, you know that it comes with all these challenges that are not written in any of the books that claim to be the guidebooks to parenting that don't actually fit for everyone. And it’s kind of been a long journey, I started around the time of Covid with a podcast, because what else was I to do during the time when I was home educating my children from home and teaching from home, I had a lot of time because I wasn't going anywhere after what would have been work hours. So I ended up finally deciding to dive into my creative side and kind of reignite some pieces that were missing for a long time to sort of lay dormant for a while. And I started Raising Legacies podcast where I had guests like Your Lovely Self Reesa, and I had other people on sharing their story specific to parenthood. Each family's challenges were different because their situations were different. So whether they became parents by circumstance or they became parents through adoption or by choice, or they were independent parents, everyone had a different story to share. So that is sort of what got me working publicly on using my voice to connect with people and let people know that they were not alone. I sort of took a break from the podcast itself, and I'm still working on some other projects, specifically in writing right now, and I will share some of those things as I progress further in them. Right now, they're sort of in some premature stages, but I have published a couple of books as well, and I have tried to connect my audience with stories of either my own, my children's, or a combined experience that will relate to people whose stories are not often told in books. And that's where I am going now. Very cool. So any of this stuff that our readers might be interested in, or might be useful or beneficial. Shameless plug. Where can we find them? How can we find your book? Tell us more. Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram or on Facebook. Rethink Legacy's podcast. And my podcast is everywhere. The podcasts are heard. So you can catch all of those episodes that I've done. You can also reach out to Raising Legacy's podcast at gmail.com, especially if you have a story that you'd like to share. As I start to plan for recording episodes this fall, that would be. I'm always looking for people to share their parenting stories specifically, and I have currently two books and then several notebooks and journals that are available on Amazon. You can look under author Sarah Hall, which is a super common name, so you may want to go directly from the link that I will share. With that, you can find my both my journals and the books that I publish. One of the books that I have is actually in Spanish. It's called Dos Navidad, and it was written to tell a story of a teenager who was experiencing his first Christmas with divorced parents. So it was actually two Christmases and sort of what some of the pain came along with that sort of what the experience did for him. And it turned out to be one of those things that I didn't I didn't know that I needed to write that story, but it was something that I was working for my work on with my children, for them to tell a story that they could connect to. When I was initiating the separation from their father. And then the other one was a partnership with my oldest son. It's called Two Homes, and it was written there for very young children to understand that there is some normalization in having two homes where parents are separated, or parents were never married in the first place, but you get to spend time at each one. And the common denominator is the love that your parents have for you. And how you should celebrate that. It gives a perspective of like, here's what's happened. Here's what happens at my mom's house, here's what happens at my dad's house, and how the experiences are sort of parallel, but they're not the same. And so then it comes back to the whole, both of my parents love me, and it's a great one for the reason that I love that one so much is because Dante was actually an illustrator, so he was eight years old at the time, and he drew the pictures for him. And it's something we really cherish because that experience was was helpful for us to be able to sort of bond through some of the hardship that came along with separation. But also we don't have a, traumatizing divorce situation that has happened in our home. It's been very peaceful, tranquil, loving, and the boys have not heard from much of it. Thankfully, the biggest piece was just that there was some newness surrounding now going to a different place to visit daddy. So I think, yeah, a lot of the pain was coming from my and thinking, what are they going to experience? What's going to happen with them? Are they going to hurt from this? What do I need to do to make sure that my children don't suffer and so this was a great way for us to kind of come together in that moment. And I again, it was another thing that I didn't know that I needed myself. Wonderful. And like Sara said, we will definitely be linking all that in our show notes. So make sure to take a peek at those if that's something that resonates with you. So thank you so much for sharing that piece of it. And sharing it sounds like your heart's, with us as well. So thank you. Okay, before we get started, because I absolutely want to hear more of your story. And I know, you know, you've got lots of experience. So we're just going to talk just a snippet of some of that experience today. But before we do that, can you share with us what recipe are you going to teach me today and what why did you pick this one boy? So I chose Martha Bok, which is a Japanese egg roll from Indonesia. My father is from Indonesia, and it's one of the foods that I remember him cooking for me when I was really young and before my own parents separated and my mom learned to cook the same food. But sometimes it was better. Okay, that, but it was it was really it was amazing how there was a thing that I thought that only my dad could do. And my mom, who raised four children independently and worked two jobs and was busy a lot. One of the things that she always did was make sure that we were eating and that we were eating well, and so that was one thing that sort of stuck with me my whole life, along with the comfort that the food itself brings, because it's got that crunch and it's savory and salty, like all at one time. And it's, it's it's really comforting, but it's comforting in an emotional way as well, because it was one of those staple foods in our home that was like, we're going to eat. We need everyone coming together. It's always a dish that I pass whenever I'm invited somewhere. It's easy for me to make, and it's a fun family experience. My boys have helped me for roll the egg roll wrappers up and stuff for me, and it's a it's a big deal across families under like between my siblings and myself and Marketo. So love it. Okay, what packed into it and it's really yummy. Yes. Okay. So with that so I have ahead of time. So I browned our ground meats and with the garlic with our eggs. And now it sounds like what do I do after, after that I've got my my scallions. Here am my mixing that. Do they go separately? Tell me more. So you do want to mix them right into the meat. You do want to make sure that the meat cools first because you want the onion to have. It's not. It's flavor, right. It's only if you cook them alongside it. Some of that flavor kind of goes into the meat, and you want it to sort of stand out separately. So you are going to mix them in. I just dump the green onions right into the meat bowl or drop it in a bowl. I can't have it in a bowl. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So just mix it right into your bowl and you can move it around. Make sure the onions are kind of evenly spread throughout all of the meat. Perfect. Okay, so while I'm mixing this I'd love to know. So I know today we're going to talk a little bit about the uniqueness that you have in your family where you've got mixed babies and and some of the challenges that can come up with that, that maybe other families can relate to, or maybe they've they've experienced themselves. I'd love to hear more about that experience and maybe some of the challenges, as well as some of just the joys that come along with, with that as well. And mixing cultures. Joy. So I didn't mention before when I talked about sort of who I am. I said I was an educator, I didn't tell you what I teach, so I teach Spanish. And as I mentioned before it, my father is from Indonesia. I grew up not knowing the language, and because my parents had separated, I didn't have much opportunity. Once I decided it was something I wanted to actually get that experience. So it was something I had to sort of start learning on my own. And I didn't do that until college. So now I'm very low in proficiency and high and interest, and so I want to learn. And that is something that I recognized in college when I was studying abroad, I was in Argentina when I realized there was a big piece of me that was missing, and it was that I hadn't connected with my culture. And in fact, when I was really young, I was sort of ashamed of the culture because I thought, well, my dad doesn't look like me, and my dad's skin is darker than mine, and I didn't see a lot of people who looked like me. I grew up in a pretty diverse community, so there were quite a bit of Latinos, and we had lots of black people who were either coming from Asian families or they were African Americans. There were mixes of the two. Lots of people from Puerto Rico in our community. And then, there was me and there was no one who looked like me, this Asian American little girl who could be white passing. But, you know, my mom is white. The dad is not. And it was kind of it was kind of hard to find somebody who was anything like me except my siblings. And so that piece was something that once I grew up and realized I had that because being young, I didn't necessarily know that was a struggle for me until I got a little older and I was like, wow. Like, I think I could have benefited from having some representation or having some people who were like me, and I wanted to commit myself to making sure that my own children did not feel that, because no matter what, and when they found another Indonesian American man to have children with my kids were going to look different from me. So that was a big piece. And when my kids were born, their father and I just is black decided that we wanted to make sure they were surrounded by diversity, that they were well-educated on people who were like them, exposed to people who were different from them, but that they did have that representation available to them. The big struggles can be I had one time at the doctor's office where I am the one who tirelessly fills out the paperwork for the kids to do all their appointments. I take them everywhere, and the doctor looked at me and asked me if I was their bio mom, and I was like, yes, I am like friendly. But also there was something like in the notes that she was looking at. She's like, I just wanted to make sure I could ask you about this thing. But it was like, why? Why wouldn't I be their mom? And that piece was kind of hard for me, and I've had other times the biggest I think the, the bigger challenge for me is when there's an experience that they're having that I can't relate to. So specifically in our school district, it's a predominantly white school district, and they there are other children of color in both of their classes, but there's a lot of times where they're experiences that they're having that they can't necessarily relate to their classmates in, or they're having a different type of struggle. And because their lens is different and they their lens is different from mine. And so when I try to teach them about perspective and teach them how to work through some of the challenges that come along with being mixed children in a predominantly white setting, I was, yes, a mixed children, but it was not a predominantly white setting. So our experiences are not the same in that matter, and even their father can necessarily give them that support either because his his experiences were different. So I think in that in general, I think the hard thing as a parent where you want to protect your child, you want to give them opportunity, but you also want to make sure that they have skills that they need to work through some of those pieces. And yet, since you haven't lived them yourself, you don't necessarily know what to offer and what might be helpful for them. And I think that that's probably where I struggle the most is them wanting to relate to them, helping them find who they are. But they're not going to be me, and I don't want them to be, absolutely. Before we go on. Okay, I've got my my meat mixed. Am I taking a rapper? Can you tell me what do I do next? Well, you're going to take your rapper and you're going to turn it so that it's in a diamond shape. Okay? They come in squares, they roll rappers, and you want to turn it so that it's like a diamond you're going to scoop. I usually take a tablespoon, but it's a generous one. And I'll go okay, into the middle of that girl. Rapper. You'll take the bottom piece that's facing you and you're going to push it forward to cover the meat. Okay. Then you're going to take the two side pieces and slap them in. Doesn't matter which one comes first okay. And then that top piece is so it kind of is going to look like a house. The square with a little triangle on top. Now you're just going to roll it so that the triangle gets wrapped around the whole self. And what I usually do is just take a small bit of warm water and dab it on my finger, and use that to seal the egg roll. If you wish, you could also use like an egg wash. I've never done that, but if you find this recipe online it will tell you to do that. I always do it with water. Gotcha. Okay, I will try again. My guide split open but continue. I'd love to hear more while I try to figure out how to perfect my rolling technique. So I heard you mentioned in there that, you know, part of some of the difficulties is your lines is a little bit different. Your story, even though it was also, you know, mix, mix baby yourself, it's a different story. It's a different story than their fathers. And so I'm curious what are some of the things that for you folks, you sat down and said, hey, this is really important for me to be able to be able to provide a space that they feel seen, that they feel safe. And how are you addressing some of those things? Boy so this is. A great question. I love it and I'm challenged by it. So one thing as a teacher, when you I've been teaching for 15 years, and so when I'm teaching, I'm looking at other people's children, like, how would I want my child to be taught? Right. And what would I want somebody to be doing for my child? And how would I want my child to respond to me? So when I'm in the classroom, I have the expectation that students will speak with me precisely, and also that they will advocate for themselves. And a big discrepancy in the classroom, especially. I teach in middle school, especially in the middle school, people often think that a child speaking back as an adult is then being disrespectful. Whereas if a child is doing something that warrants different, redirecting and I redirect a child, but I was mistaken in what was happening, I want the child to let me know that so that I'm more aware moving forward. Other people sometimes think that that's if the adult says you're wrong, you're wrong, and that's absolutely not it for me. So when I had my own child come home and tell me about an experience that he had in his classroom where he had come back from the bathroom and the teacher was telling him that he needed to go and get back to work, and he was wasting his time. And he got a negative dojo mark because he was off task. But he told me when he got home he didn't know what the task was and that when he had come back from the bathroom, he had asked a friend and the friend was telling him, but the teacher perceived him talking to the friend as him being off task. And so I spoke with him and with her about it and just sort of went dancing. Know that there's a way to advocate for yourself. There's a way to talk with the teacher and if you don't know what to do, ask the adult. Because sometimes when you're talking with your friends, it might not look like to a teacher that you're. On task. And for me, that's a hard piece, because why does my child have to make it look like he's on task if he is on task? Because what does that mean? And it does he have to look like he's on task because he's typically a problem causer in the classroom. And I wonder that all the time, because I get negative notes sometimes and wonder, like, is this a thing that happened 4 or 5, six times? And finally the teacher was like, you're getting a mark for it. Or is this a thing where it's like first time and she's nipping it in the bud, but it's an unnecessary nipping because it wasn't something that he actually did wrong. And how do you teach a child when something is wrong in the teacher's eyes, but not necessarily in the parents, because of the way that the parents are raising their children or because of what the teacher considers disrespect. And so when she and I spoke about it, I let her know if he says something to you or uses a tone that is perceived disrespectful, that's absolutely not okay. But I do want you to be aware that I spoke with him about standing up for himself when he's called out for something that he did not do wrong. And there is a difference between lying about what you did wrong, and he has to own it when he does mess up. But also in cases like that, he was afraid to say something because he thought that he was going to be disrespectful, and that was definitely not his aim. But I think that a lot of times teachers can look at children with an unconscious bias. And because my children are mixed in a predominantly white district, that's always a fear of mine, that somebody's going to look at my child and think, you're not white, and so you're going to be causing trouble or with a stereotype that comes along, unfortunately, with being a person of color. And I hate that so much for him because another thing that his father said to me and to him during one of these conversations about behavior in the classroom was, look at the image that you are portraying right now. You know, he's by himself. These like jeans that he wore to school, he really liked them. With Harris currently in dreads, most children in his school keep a short haircut, or some of the boys in his class have like longer cuts. But it was like long, straight hair. So he stands out because his hair is different. And because of that piece, it draws a different type of attention to him and he wants the dreads. It's a part of who he is and he likes it. So I encourage that. And yet there's some truth to the fact that when you stand out, you don't always get the benefit of the doubt. And that's hard for me to teach to a child, because as an adult, I struggle to wrap my head around it. And I have seen cases where those these small things that are being addressed by teachers are being addressed toward specific children that have either the same skin tone or they are not the athletes or they are not girls, or they are not always like there are cultural identifiers that are 100% outside of a child's control, and yet they're what adults are using to determine who gets what treatment. And that's what I'm working as an educator to undo. But I also have to sort of let my child know and have him kind of be on his guard about how people are going to perceive him as a human differently because of what he looks like. And I hate that so much because it's 2024. Why is this what we're doing? And yet it's what we're doing? Yeah. And gosh, I mean, how how have you folks gone about having that conversation with your kids? You know, when you yourself are looking at it and going, I don't understand it. It doesn't make sense in my brain. I wish I could steal this from you. At the same time acknowledging that much of these behaviors, much of these mindsets are things that we can't physically go into someone's brain and change it and make it better. We can't make their behavior change. So how do you have that conversation? How have you folks been kind of navigating that really, really tough place to be in? And unfortunately, we've had to have conversations that I think are above the typical eight and ten year old level of typical comprehension. Our children understand it, and I hate that they have to leave it very honest with them anytime they ask the question. And also, their father has shared stories about him being profiled and pulled over because he fit the description of a crime and things like that in his car. And we don't share violent stories, but if they come up in the news and my children hear about them, we'll ask questions about what they know, they'll hear what they've heard, and we'll give them as much information as we can. And then there's such an emotional piece to it that the only thing we can do is educate them on the concept of working on what we can control in those situations, and a big, a big story that we shared with them was how one of one of my children, they both have the same shirt, but one of them had it on at school one day and it was these two black boys and it said black feature on it, and it was this beautiful like from target. I love target, so it was from target. And in their section, during Black History Month, it was a shirt that was celebrating diversity, which also those shirts need to be on sale all year long. But they weren't when I bought one. I bought one for each of them, and the one of them was wearing it full and he had the person in his class, a white boy, say to a friend, audibly like, write your shot down. Hey, I don't believe in Black Lives Matter. And the shirt didn't say Black Lives Matter, but that's what he did from that. And so Dante came home and he said this, this person said this to me. How can you not believe in that? Like it's a real thing. So we had to talk about how there are people who believe that Black Lives Matter should not exist because all lives matter, and yet they're missing the point because black lives matter as much as the other lives. If we're going to say all lives matter, so all lives matter until the black ones wins and equal life to their white counterparts. And that was hurtful for him because he's like this kid supposed to be, you know, he's my hero. He's a black me. I don't think they were necessarily good friends. It was still relatively early in the school year when he was wearing that shirt, but still, like they had been around each other well enough to long enough to be acquainted with one another and should be able to feel safe there with each other all day, every day. And that was really hurtful to hear that my then second grader was having an issue with a child saying, I don't believe in Black Lives Matter and my my heart broke and I had to just kind of be very matter of fact. And also let him know that while we can't change the minds of other people, what we are in control of is how we respond to what people are saying and what we can do with our time, with our power, with our voices, is continue to lift people out, continue to celebrate them in their differences, continue to be proud of who we are, to be proud of their blackness. And it was hard because, again, not an experience that I've had myself, and yet one that was like, I want to just go in and just erase the memory from him and fix the thought process in the other child. And yet all I could do was give information and support and hope that in future situations, he would remember that he's powerful how he is, he's beautiful, how he is, and I don't know that that stuck with him. But it's a thing like all we can do is all we can do. Yeah. And gosh, like to to watch your kiddo. You know, your heart outside of you kind of have to experience something like that. I imagine is just so, so difficult. And I'd love to kind of hear more about the real side, kind of what's going on in your brain when things like that happen. Because we are here to talk about the real stories. Right? At first I've got I've got a couple that are made. So my just popping it, popping it in the oil. Tell me, walk me through this piece right here. How big is your are you using a pen, a walk and a walk? I'm Asian. I have a walk. You have one? Yes, yes. I usually do like I can do 4 to 6, depending on the size of the walk. Okay. If you can comfortably take them there and then once they start to sort of turn like a light brownish. Okay, then you're going to want to turn them so they get the same color on the other side. If you can see the ingredients through the egg roll wrapper, it's not done that okay. Good to know. So I'll pop mine in. And as I do that I would love to kind of hear a little bit about when those things happen. And if I hear you working really hard to kind of, you know, show your kiddos the, kind of composed nature of, of how you want them to be able to respond when these things happen, when they experience these really kind of personal experiences. I like to know kind of, for you as a parent, what's going on in your mind in that moment? Give us, give us the direction on what's really happening behind the scenes for you and kind of how you're navigating that for yourself. Right? So I definitely have a lot of choice words, and I sort of imagine the scenario where I go to the other parents and say, listen to the toxicity you're filling your child with, because now they're filling my child with it, and that's not okay. And anything that is making my child feel less than is not acceptable. And then there's the part of me that's like, you know, you're never going to have that conversation because it's going to fall on deaf ears. And unfortunately, I can't change the parents minds. So then what can I do? And so I will vent to people who may or may not understand where I'm coming from. So my one of my best friends is white with two blond hair, blue eyed beauties who would never have any idea the experiences that I have. And yet she will listen with a full heart and ask, what do you need right now? How can I be supportive and kind of helping her to educate her children on diversity in the world and celebrating it is a thing that I know that I can do. And when I'm in experiences where other children, either in my classroom or friends of my kids, are having hard moments like that, those are the places where I can step in and I can be supportive of them and I can build them up. So I do try to focus on the things that are within my control. I'm also human, and so sometimes I'm just trying and venting and journaling and wishing that this wasn't real. And unfortunately, in the town where I am, there's a lot of. I am I want to choose my words carefully. There's a lot of. Differences in how people think and entitlement in that. It's like a it's a free country kind of thing. Maybe for you it's a free country. It's not. Yeah. For some of our kiddos. And that's where it's not okay. If you are sending your child to the school where it's supposed to be safe for all those children, and your child is making it hard for other kids, what are we doing? We're in the. And then it's like, I'm raising my kids in this world where like, it's I, I want to be worried about them falling off of their bikes. I don't want to be worried about them feeling like they do not belong, especially at school. And so I think then it's really me going back into my classroom and pouring that love into my students. And it's me reading books with my children that help them to see the beauty in who they are. It's me teaching them words of affirmation and then trying to remember to say them to myself as well, and having compassion for myself in those moments because I'm navigating unchartered territory and I don't know how they do it. I haven't so lost. And so I think it's really kind of a combination of all those things. We're finding our support system, finding an outlet where you can vent, and then finding an action item that you can do that's going to move you and your family forward and know that not everybody is going to get there. Right? Yeah. I heard you mentioned kind of in the end, you pulled that kind of especially at school and the importance and in fitting in there as well as it sounds like, you know, feeling accepted in that. Why, why call that piece out as something, you know, especially at school. So our children spend more time at school than they do in their awake hours at home. They go to school expecting to learn something, expecting to be taken care of, and parents send their children to school expecting that they're going to be safe. And in our world today, we're literally anything can go wrong in a school building, as we've seen tragedy strikes within the school buildings, and I'm sending my kids to school hoping that they're going to be safe from natural disaster, from terrorism, from hate crime. And then in a place where they're with the same people all day long, people who know them, places where they're home working on taking risks and being who they are, and growing and recognizing their strengths and their areas for growth. That's where they're supposed to feel sheltered. They're supposed to feel safe. They're supposed to feel like this is a place where I can be, and I don't have to be afraid. And I know that I'm welcomed here. And that's the thing that I really strive for my own classroom to be. That's the reason I became an educator, was to help people feel safe, for they were celebrated about who they are and give them the opportunity to grow right in front of me, right along with me. Because I'm still learning and I think I have really high expectations, not only as a parent, but as an educator, in knowing what I'm doing to make sure that other people's children are feeling safe. I want to know that the adults in the buildings where my children are are doing their very best to make sure that they're feeling safe there, too. And if it's something where it's like, well, I didn't have any idea that this was going on, but why did you not have an idea? And I do understand that as a teacher, whether you have a class of ten kids or 28, you don't have everything. Yeah, but if you're taking the time to know your kids and you're establishing a place where they feel safe, then they should feel comfortable talking. And when they're comfortable talking, you will know. And you find out things that you maybe don't see, but things that are happening that you can do something about, that you can make the environment feel safer for those people when they're feeling hurt and yeah, I'm curious, like with your journey thus far, in kind of navigating these, these particular, you know, this particular journey that maybe doesn't look like everybody else's, is there any piece of it where you were looking at it and, and thinking, you know, this isn't what I was told it was supposed to look like or that, you know, I supposed to be doing right now that you find kind of trying to come into your head whether you know it is from others, from society, from just your own upbringing, that you've you found kind of yourself battling with and trying to navigate. It so I think I was a little naive when I was becoming a parent of mixed babies because I thought, they're going to be beautiful, they're going to be talented, they're going to be these amazing humans and everyone, which they are. I'd like to say that, yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. And I think that I thought that was going to be enough. And for me it is. I think I'm constantly looking for things that other people see as a flaw in my children. And when I do look for it, I find it. So sometimes I'll hear even my my mother sometimes will say things that she doesn't mean to be offensive in any way. And yet the impact that it has on me or on my children. Yeah, it's hurtful. And I think that's the case, unfortunately, because a lot of people, because they don't realize that the things that they're saying can be hurtful. And I think that was the thing. I just wasn't really I didn't think it was going to happen. And I was kind of like, oh, there's no way we're going to be in a place where our kids aren't just loved and celebrated, and all the time people are like, oh my gosh, there's so amazing. There are people who see things and wrong in my kids, and I see wrong things. And I think, of course I see wrong in my kids. And yet the wrong in them does not define who they are. And I have found other people defining children, adults too. But children based on their behavior or based on a meltdown based on a spontaneous decision to do a cartwheel in a parking lot, like there's people and people will associate those negative behaviors with the child's personality. And then it's like, well, it's because it's a single mom, or it's because they're mixed kids. It's because they're black. It's because the parents aren't doing enough at home. All these things that it's like, no, the kid just did a cartwheel in the parking lot. That has nothing to do with that actually does have something to do with who they are. They're they do parkour like they're athletes. But there's a big piece of me who thinks they should just be able to be, and their people are going to love them no matter what. And yet if you don't understand the whole child and you see the one behavior and you automatically assume that that's what the life of the child is, then you're missing out on so much beauty in this world. And I feel like I see a lot of people noticing those things. And it's not just in my kids, it's I see it in students, too, but it's definitely a thing that I didn't recognize before us, or maybe a sign and didn't realize how problematic it was until it was my own kids. Do you think for you there was like a really big moment that like that moment that some of these things started to click for you and maybe your perspective shifted? Oh, and I think. I it's kind of hearing something like, oh well that's just daunting or well that's just Zander. That's just how they are. That's just who they are in a negative concept like context. Sorry. Okay. That have kind of made me think. Think. Or realize that that was even a thing that people were doing. And honestly, the hardest, the hardest things to watch, though, were those moments when, when teachers were saying those things about students and, my thought was, what if somebody's saying this about my kid? And no matter what student it is that's being talked about, that somebody's child? And so I think it was really in the classroom or in meetings rather than I started to realize that that was happening. And that's when I feel like I became alert to it in my children because it's it was kind of like, oh, well, you're not going to get anything out of that kid. And then I'm like, challenge accepted. Like, let's go. Yeah. I really think that it was it was a lot in the classroom that sort of opened my eyes to what was happening with my own children. And then and sometimes it's just like, you know, I don't think that we can have Dante and Zander over here today because they don't clean up their wrappers when they eat something. And then my thought is, will do. Did you tell them take up your wrappers. And if you know, yes, we should assume that children just know. And also children sometimes don't remember. And so I say pick up your wrapper and they pick it up and go throw it away. Problem solved. And then if it happens again then they say, hey, remember we need to pick up that wrapper, but they don't do that piece. I feel like it's a lot of times when there's one thing that's done wrong, then it's like, yeah, no, we we're not doing this anymore because they didn't do X, Y, and Z where a conversation was not had with either them or myself to know that there was a problem in the first place. So we weren't necessarily given the opportunity to rectify it. And that's a frustrating piece to that. I also wasn't ready for it. I just thought we all have conversations with people and stuff goes wrong and then we work to fix it. And that piece does not always happen. There. Yeah. And like you said, it kind of almost is all or nothing. And it being kind of more of a character attack versus maybe some grace and some compassion for the fact that these are, you know, kids that are ten and under that are still learning and experiencing the world and figuring out what their place is in it, what what it's like to be in the world, what it's like to have expectations, and be mindful. I mean, gosh, if if our ten year olds, our eight year olds were able to be as mindful as we would want it, I mean, goodness, there's there's adults that, you know, I look at and go, I wish you were you were also practicing more mindfulness. But to have that expectation of these little kiddos and then have it be like an all or nothing definition I can imagine is just so hurtful as as the parent who is working really hard to to raise good human beings and ones that are celebrated and seen for for their awesomeness, joy. So I'm curious, are there any kind of insights or resources or things that if you could go back in time, that you would tell yourself to prepare or to share with others that are maybe experiencing similar things? What what would you share or give back in those ways? And I think this also applies to all parents weddings. In particular, I felt like I'm a mix baby. I can handle raising mixed babies, and I was excited for it. And I was like, look how much diversity there live under my roof. And it was going to be amazing. And I think the thing that I really had to knock myself down, a few things on it with that I don't know everything that's going to happen, I don't I yes, I'm a mixed baby in that I'm not my children, and I didn't have all of the same experiences as them. So I think it's really being able to separate yourself from your tiny person and saying, I, I am not this person. I did not have this experience. So I think a lot of times something that's harmful is when parents say like, oh, you're fine. Like, I've been there. I know what you're dealing with and it's not the end of the world or, you know, my like, if I were to say to my kids like, yeah, I was a mixed baby too. So I know mixed babies have issues in the school system. I don't know that because I didn't have those difficulties. I didn't have people saying hurtful things to me. I did have people using microaggressions that I didn't realize were microaggressions until I became educated on what they were. And some really oh, before you move on, could you? Actually, for those that don't know what microaggressions are, can you just give us like a little snippet? Yeah. Of course. So a point, for example, is my kids here earlier we talked about how he has dreads. Right. And something that can be harmful to a child is when you're a girl or to any person of color is when you're treating them like what they are is not normal in a way that's not like you wouldn't do it to somebody who is somebody else, right? So you wouldn't just go up to some random person, be like, oh my God, let me touch your hair. And people will do that to you. Lots of times to black people, because black people have beautiful hair, A and B, it's styled differently and it's different from what we expect. Because it's it's different from what we have. Right. And so we want to see it. We want to touch it, we want to feel it, but also know that's invading their personal space. So you would not go up to a white person and say, let me touch your hair. Let me, let me see your braids. Let me. Is this real? Like those kinds of things that you don't realize are harmful. And yeah, that can be another example is, you know, saying when a person is talking and their dialect is different from yours, telling them that they're wrong or telling them that they're in any way not educated because they're not using correct grammar where correct grammar came from, a book written by a bunch of white guys like incorrect grammar where they were born or in their home exists, right? Like their own ability to code, which is this superpower, right? Where I have to speak this way at school and this way at home. And I can merge the two sometimes, but it's really like knowing another language and yet telling them that they're wrong about it is harmful. Right? And that's another thing where you don't think that you're doing anything wrong. A lot of times the microaggressions are rooted in what is considered the norm, but the norm, according to him, is what we really need to think about. Where did this norm come from? And if this norm came from a group of white guys, that's not the norm, because not everybody is a group of white guys. Yeah. And who makes you the authority, right, to determine the norm for somebody else's unique life and life experiences. Right? Absolutely. And I, I did not mean to cut you off. I just I thought that was super important. I wanted to make sure that our listeners, for those that don't, aren't aware of what microaggressions are, could be a little bit more informed. So thank you for being willing to kind of take a slight detour there, actually. So I was thinking about this earlier that so there were experiences that I've had too, that also were harmful to me as a child, but didn't really I didn't realize it until I was an adult. So when I was in. Fourth grade, maybe it was elementary school for sure. I when we had a cultural celebration day at school and my teacher gave me a grass skirt and the lay to wear because I looked like I could be Hawaiian and I. So we're working with assumptions. There and I weary. Yeah, because I was in fourth grade, it was like, cool, I get to wear this cool flower thing. But then I looked at pictures one day and I was like, gosh, like, why did you think that was okay? Because nobody told me it wasn't right. Yeah. And it's kind of like, there's no like, just because my eyes are slanted does not mean that I look Hawaiian. And also, what does it mean to look Hawaiian? And, so like I think about this a lot when I'm teaching in Spanish because somebody will look at people and be like, that was not Spanish. Well, first of all, no, they're from Puerto Rico. That's not Spanish. They're word Rican, but they speak Spanish. No, they don't realize why I'm here. Okay, okay. So yeah. So I think it's a lot of times these like those assumptions that are being made and then the generalization and saying like, oh well that's nice. You could be Hawaiian. Where are you? Chinese and Japanese. See I would be embarrassed. Like, right. Why is it only one or the other. And I think, I think that's a huge thing that I didn't just I grew up thinking, okay, like nobody knows any better. And then I grew up and I was like, how come nobody knows any better? That's great. Like, what is that? So I think it's just that that piece of like really educating yourself on who people are and knowing that it's they can be celebrated in ways that are exciting for them and that make them feel like this is me and I love who I am, and I want to share this with you, rather than the thing where that they feel like they have to, like, kind of hold back in and not be able to share. So I think it's kind of simple when you ask me about, you know, what are those things that I want to tell other people, it really know who the people are and celebrate them, and also recognize that your experience is not the same as theirs. Yeah. And almost sounds like I wonder if, you know, part of that is starting and figuring out kind of what your own biases are first and figuring out, you know, what does that look like in your lens? And then being able to then have that conversation with your kids, as I imagine that's a really hard conversation to have if you're not even, you know, your own biases and kind of what's going on based off of your own experiences, your own life, what you've been taught, etc., you know you're not completely cognizant of and you're just kind of going through life, like you said, because I don't know any different. This is all I've seen. And so I didn't know that this was, you know, inappropriate or whatnot. It sounds like could be really beneficial. Yeah, I, I think so a lot. So we look at sorry you thought you were. Oh no. You're good. Go for it. I'd love to hear it. So I'm thinking about how, a lot of times we think too, like what? What what can I say that's going to be the right thing to say, right? Or you're like, I'm afraid to talk because I don't want to be offensive or, you know, I don't want to ask the questions because it's not their job to educate me. I need to go and get educated myself. So some of the conversations that we need to have with ourselves are those that maybe you need a journaling page. I actually have a journal that I can send your way, like, I want to say it's like eight pages maybe that have different ways to kind of dive in to who you are in terms of your cultural identity. And then once you're kind of feeling like, okay, I'm comfortable with, you know, recognizing who I am and talking about the ways that I the way that I represent myself, the ways that I celebrate where I am now, I can start to look at how I'm looking at other people. And there are unconscious biases, tests that you can take online, where it's like a series of images and asks you to choose based on specific questions or stereotypes and things like that, where it's like, you know, which person looks like they would be friendly, which person looks like they would be dangerous, who would you be afraid of? I think the big thing is being honest with yourself. When you're having those conversations or doing those journaling pages or taking those tests, really answering them truthfully. Because I think a lot of times we know that something is wrong. So we speak around it to say, you know, oh, well, I know that I would be afraid of this person, but if I say that I'm going to sound racist, so I need to not say that. So you choose differently. And that's not an honest conversation with yourself. You're recognizing that you have that unconscious bias, but you're avoiding it by answering how you think somebody wants you to answer. And then you're saying, oh, I don't have the unconscious biases or or the results that hold true to what you're actually experiencing. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great resource. And I'd love to to link it down too. So again, all those things for those folks that are listening, we'll make sure get included. In our show notes. And so those are great resources to be able to start changing this conversation and hopefully making this place, leaving this place a better world than when we got here. And, and helping kind of rewrite some of these journeys that, our neighbors right next to us or you yourself might be experiencing and people are unaware because there's not enough conversation about these things. And that's what we're here to do. We're here to have these conversations to pull back that curtain. So here is my product. Hopefully it it does well. Oh goodness. And just kind of what we're looking for. Yes. No. So yes. But also I feel that differently. I would have rolled it in so that it was like the flap with the along the role of the egg roll. It looked like cute little person, you know, like well below. Yeah. Hey, it's my interpretation of it was exactly what you were going for, right? Yes. So I did. I thought them like that. A couple of pictures that I got and I was like, oh, my gosh, are we doing them wrong? Because it's my at my house. Like, I will roll them like an egg roll. My mom will make them flat, but more like yours that look like an envelope with like a rectangle rather than like the square pocket. So again, it's your it's how you how you do it. It's how you do it. It's going to be back with the same delicious flavor. But I love that. It's like you're my directions for them. Here is your interpretation of them. And this is what they look like. And I'm like, oh, that's not how I make them. But also they're going to be delicious. Yeah. And and hey, you know, I can put it when I'm out the pocket. So all that to say, you know, the basic that's, that's how we are. Right. The basic materials of us are, are fairly similar. At the same time, we all are unique and different and we're all just as amazing as an egg. So that's, that's that's my spin on it. I love all very thank you so much for being willing to to chat with us today and share a little bit about your story and your experience. Sure. On on the real family. So thank you. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eat. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe social media's support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes, so make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe, and stay up to date on all things the real family. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food! Enjoy your eats!