Parenting Reality-Check: Melissa on Navigating Challenges + Spinach Artichoke Dip

In this episode, Melissa Donald, doula and mom of two, joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to explore the challenges of parenting when reality doesn’t match expectations. Melissa shares how the birth of her second child, with a completely different temperament from her first, reshaped her understanding of parenting. She opens up about the toll isolation and unexpected challenges had on her family system and the internal narrative she struggled to overcome.

As they discuss parenting insights, support, and lessons learned, Melissa also shares her favorite Spinach and Artichoke Dip recipe from Delish.com—a crowd-pleaser perfect for any family gathering.

Subscribe, like, and follow for relatable parenting stories, practical tips, and delicious recipes!

💬 What parenting challenges have you faced? Share your story in the comments!

🥗 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!

*****
Credit: https://www.delish.com/cooking/recipe-ideas/a57633/baked-spinach-artichoke-dip-recipe/

Ingredients:

1 (8-oz.) block cream cheese, softened
3/4 c. mayonnaise
3/4 c. sour cream
1 c. freshly grated Parmesan
1 c. shredded white cheddar, plus more for topping
1/2 c. shredded Gruyère
1 (14-oz.) can artichoke hearts, drained and chopped
1 (10-oz.) package frozen spinach, defrosted and chopped
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 tsp. lemon zest
1/2 tsp. red pepper flakes
Kosher salt
Freshly ground black pepper
Tortilla chips, for serving

Instructions:

1. Preheat oven to 350°. In a large bowl, combine all ingredients except baguette. Mix until fully combined and season with salt and pepper. 
2. Transfer to a baking dish and smooth top with a spatula. Top with more shredded white cheddar.
3. Bake until bubbly and slightly golden, 30 minutes. If you’d like the dip to develop a more golden top, broil on high for 2 minutes.
4. Serve with baguette on the side, for dipping.

*******
If you or your loved one is struggling with any of the topics discussed, here are some resources:
Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net/

*******
Disclaimer:

The content provided on this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice or treatment. 

The views and

******
Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a couples counselor for parents providing therapy in person in Murrieta, CA and virtual couples therapy in California. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!

For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

0:00

She went through 12 baby sitters before she was a year old, including my own mother, who said they'd never watch her again. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on The Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat. My guest today is Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Thank you so much for being a guest on our show today. Thanks for having me. Yes, I was so excited to hear about the story that you're going to share with us today. But first, if you could for those that don't know, you, introduce yourself for us. So I'm Melissa, I'm a doula, so I help women get birth, help them through pregnancy and postpartum. I love it. And I went to college for, child and infant development and psychology, so I feel like I had a pretty good road to understanding parenthood before I had kids, and they confused me. But don't they, though? Oh my goodness. Yeah. So that's that's why I'm here. Very cool. So, you're a doula in Las Vegas, correct? Right. Perfect. Do you have any way, like, if folks end up wanting your support, your awesome support, that they can kind of reach out to you or contact you? How does that work? So mostly I do friends and family. I actually have taken a step back from it. For the moment, just because I'm trying to focus on the last little bit with my kids before school starts. And so I'm kind of like an on again, off again do list. And I'm not I'm an independent, so if people reach out to me on Facebook or they know me, like I'll be there doula, but I'm not, I don't I'm not trying to do it too much at the moment. That's totally fair. Grooming? Yeah, I imagine so. To kind of be that support person, especially with such an unknown like giving birth, you never know when the little kiddo wants to kind of come into the world. If you are on call 24 seven for a five week period. So my goodness, hard to plan your life. Yeah, I imagine so. But gosh, I imagine that that's so helpful to kind of have someone that's in their corner. Very cool. Well, okay. Tell us what recipe you're going to teach us today and kind of why you chose that one. So I'm doing spinach and artichoke dip. It's a my cheat sheet of, like, how to get veggies into my kids. Yes. I feel like that's a theme I'm hearing a lot from parents. Yeah. You got to get those and then my kids, they've always been a little under the growth chart. So my their pediatrician is always trying to get me to fatten them up with the healthy fats. So like cheese. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So yeah, that my pediatrician is always like get cheese, get butter, get peanut butter. Anything. Any of that healthy fat. So it has cheese. It has veggies. So it's like it works for us. Perfect. And so I saw this one was from Delish.com. Is that, a website that you love for like recipes? Have you found a lot that you like on there? Yeah. It's really good. I love it because it has lots of easy recipes and, like, tasty ones. And that's what I need. I need something easy, quick, healthy. Come on. Yes. I can't have three hours in the kitchen for one meal. As much as I would love to. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so tip for parents. Maybe take a look on there for some recipes. Very cool. Okay. So walk me through what am I starting with first. And then we'll chat. So preheat your oven. Okay. Oven. Okay. Then you just take all the ingredients and you're pretty much dumping them all in. It's cream cheese, mayonnaise, sour cream, all kinds of different cheese, artichoke hearts, spinach, garlic. You pretty much just dump it in the bowl and mix it. Perfect. So I can do that. I am a good dump, a mixer. So. All right. While we do that, I would love to hear. I know you're going to share a story a little bit about kind of your journey, what it was like from going from one kiddo to two kiddos and kind of some of the uniqueness about that piece of it. And I'd love to kind of know more. So my first kid, she was the unicorn child. She she was the like, if you look a perfect baby, like the one who slept through the night, right away, the one who started talking by 18 months. But like, like you could take anywhere. Like. Like she. She was that unicorn. And so I thought I had motherhood in the bag. I was like, I know exactly what I'm doing. Like, because I was breastfeeding, I was baby wearing. I was like, applying all the research from my psychology classes that I had taken. I was like, yeah, I got this. Yeah. And then, famous last words, right? Oh, yeah, I got this. I know what I'm doing. This is easy. Yeah. I thought motherhood was easy. And then I had my second born, and, you know, people used to say, you know, your kids are going to be different, like. And to me, I don't know, maybe I thought like, oh, one kid's going to be into pop music, and the other is going to be into rock and roll. You know, when people say they're different. I was thinking, like, cute things like that. That's how I. Like, yeah, that's cool. I can support their different personalities. No, the second one, she was a dragon. Like full blown. She she came out screaming, and she didn't stop screaming for the first three years of her life. Oh, my goodness. I imagine that's really overwhelming. Especially when you've got another kiddo kind of that you're trying to to care for at the same time. Yes. Yeah. It was, it was, it was a lot. It was very intense. Because all of the things that I thought I knew especially, you know, like from my first one where I thought, like, I got this. I know exactly what to do. I know how to handle all the things. Like, none of it worked. None of it helped her. Oh my goodness. And and she she would scream if she was happy, if she was sad, if she everything, if any emotion more than like it was screaming and she could scream for hours. She wasn't someone who could scream herself to sleep. She could stay awake for three four hours at a time, screaming and so she went through 12 babysitters before she was a year old, including my own mother, who said they'd never watch her again just because the screaming was was too overwhelming. No one knew how to make her stop or how to help her. Or like why? Like everything triggered her. So. And, she we did find out when she was, like, two months old that she had lip ties, tongue ties, cheek ties. We got it revised. So that helped. Can you. Before you go on, for anybody who doesn't kind of know, like, what the ties are, can you tell us just a little bit more about what those are? How did you discover that and kind of what does revising look like? So with with the tongue ties, it's like that, that string under the bottom of your tongue, you know, if you lift it up, you kind of have like, a string looking thing. It's right. And and you can have those on your cheeks and your tongue, your lip, whatever. So she had it all over. She didn't just have one. She had like 5 or 6 of them throughout her mouth. And the problem is, when you have those ties, it's almost like you're keeping your, your neck hostage. Like if you pull your tongue to the back of your throat and try to try to function, it's very difficult. And so the dental pediatrician, there's a different name for it. A pediatric dentist that we took her to, they kind of explained it as like, it's very triggering for babies because it's like their tongue is holding them hostage. And it hurt. It's uncomfortable. It gets them headaches. And so it it's very upsetting for them. And so it was very cool when I, when we went and did the revision literally, I handed them this very upset baby. And they took her back for I felt like it was less than a minute. I had time to sit down in my chair and then pop back up, and they were like, oh, here's your baby. Because it was just they took a little laser. And what did throughout her mouth. And that was the revision. Okay. And they handed her back to me and she was smiling. I was like, really? Who is this? Like, they gave me back and smiling baby, I was like, whose baby is this? Like. Yeah. Wow. An incredible, like, just a shift, like you said within just a minute. But it was instantaneous that she was a smiling, happy baby for the first time in, like, two months. Of her life. And we the. So the way we had discovered it is when she was born, her midwife had like, kind of mentioned. Oh, I think I might see a tongue tied, but she had mentioned it, you know, amongst like being born and me giving birth and there was a, there was. Yeah. So a lot of stuff happening. Your mind's not necessarily going, oh totally sure. Yeah, yeah. And so it, it was sort of one of those things that like stored and like kind of forgot. And then after a couple months of being like, what is like what is going on with this baby? I was like, wait a minute. I had a little light bulb moment, like, wait, my midwife had mentioned that there was like, she thought she saw a tongue tie. So I took her to get a consultation with a pediatric dentist and they were like, oh yeah, yeah, she's she's got more than a tongue tie like she is. Wow. All the ties. And so, so yeah. So we got that done. That helped a lot. But also she, she was still very trigger happy. Like she was still a screamer. She was still just, choose not to have a baby. And so we get to the point. Fast forward like, I think she was like a little over a year. She. So I kept her home with me. And it was, it was a crazy transition because with my first, I would take her to storage time. I would take her to restaurants, out to lunch. We went to the parks, we went everywhere, you know, and so then to transition to have this baby, who wouldn't want to stop screaming? I couldn't take her anywhere. So it was it was kind of traumatizing for me that we, we slowly kind of became like, imprisoned because I was like, I'm not going to take a screaming baby to storytime. You know? I'm not I can't take her grocery shopping with me. I'm not going to sit her at a restaurant to have lunch. And so we stopped kind of going places. That sounds incredibly lonely. Goodness. It was. It was getting lonelier and lonelier and and traumatizing. So I was like, I, I felt like I was very prepared, like I have a degree. And in childhood, like, wait, someone someone offered me this, this fancy thing on the wall that says, you know, I, I know things. I also have my first baby who says that I know things, but I didn't. And so it was just crazy. Oh. And that. So then, she started being able to, like, walk and talk, and it got in some ways it got better because she was sort of able to communicate, you know, what she wanted, what, so that in ways that helped. But then in other ways it made it worse because now she could walk and talk. And she was honestly kind of violent, like she would get mad and this little toddler would walk around and if she got mad, she, she throw chairs, she would bite people, she would pull hair. And I'm like, I don't know where she I don't know where she learned this. Like, this is not we don't do this. You know, this isn't the place where we're where we have where we do these things. So I don't know where she's getting this from. I don't know why she's doing it, but also, I'm not putting her in daycare because I was genuinely afraid for other kids, you know, being around her, I was like, she's she will bite them. Yeah. I'm so curious. Like, how was that for you? Kind of on your parent narrative? I know that there's so many, right? There's so many insta perfect parents kind of things that are out there, so much media out there that kind of says, this is this is the way it go. It's this is what parenting looks like, you know? And so I'm so curious about like what was going on for you kind of behind the scenes, while you're experiencing this just complete like, I don't know, she humbled me, but mostly it was just like, I a lot of admitting, I guess I don't know what I'm doing, like, maybe at all. Like, I feel like I know what I was doing for my first, but yeah, I'm like, I don't maybe I just don't know. So then it was just a lot of like, trial and error and then I was thinking, okay, you know, maybe, maybe we should put her in daycare, maybe, like being around other kids, which would help her. And then Covid hit. Oh my goodness. And so now you went from isolating yourself by choice. And now you have to isolate by mandate. Yes. So then so so so then we start going through like things like I discovered, you know, you have to like I have to do other things. I like my baby wearing hers and helping, a lot of my things aren't helping this kid. And so I have to start doing other things. So then I'm doing research, like, okay, I realized, like, my oldest, I could feed her whatever for breakfast. You know, some, like, if that means a sugar bomb, sometimes she can. She can eat, you know, a donut for breakfast and be fine. This one, she has to have protein, like, okay, I can't do sugar for breakfast for those kids. Like, which, I mean, you shouldn't in any way, but, sometimes you do, right? And that's that's parenting late in life, so sometimes I'm not. Yeah. I'm curious. Like, for her, what do you think it is about kind of the protein that. And how did you kind of identify that that was something that was really beneficial for her. So I kind of identified it because I realized like I had started taking different, like supplements, like the B12 vitamins or different trying different coffees. I love trying different things in general. And then I was starting to realize, like B12 vitamins make me ragi. Like they help other people. Other people make it, makes them happy. They're like, oh, I have a great day. If I take B12, I was, I was like, it makes me like ragi, where I'm like. And I was saying, so maybe I should start paying attention, you know, if things are affecting me for breakfast, obviously same for my kids. So I realized if I make sure that she has sausage or bacon or eggs or lots of like a protein heavy breakfast, it's a better day. Okay, okay, okay. That's fine. We can do that. Yeah. Right. That's that's an easy one to implement. Let's let's do that. That's fine. And then I started hearing about the red dyes like okay I'll take out red food dyes. It helped. What did you notice. Like what kind of what help were you kind of seeing. She wasn't as trigger happy. Like she would still get mad, you know, she'd still have her moments, but it wasn't so constantly. It went from being like, you know, the entire day is wrecked to, like, maybe she'd have a few bad moments. Okay, so. So it took it. So now we're getting protein for breakfast. We don't have the red food dye. And then, so another thing that was different with my first. With my first, I didn't do TV. I was like, no, we don't we don't have screen time, we don't watch TV. I'm not going to have TV for the first two years of her life. And I did pretty well with that. With my second, I was like, for my own sanity, yes, you're you're you're going to I'm giving you screen time because, like, I need a moment where you're not screaming. And then she loved one. Oh, I was just going to say it, I, I wanted to pause there because there are so many of, of parents that I've, I've heard even that do have those ideas of, you know, I really want to stick with this plan and again, with, with wonderful intention. And then sometimes when you find it's not working, it can feel really difficult to, like, stray from that plan because you're like, no, no, no, this is this is what I said. I was going to do. And if I stray from that, you know that that means I failed or, you know, whatever that narrative is that comes up for them. And I think what you just mentioned there, just being able to say for my own sanity so that I can actually, like, be a functioning human being and show up for my kids and all these other ways, maybe it does require some flexibility, and kind of what that plan look like. Oh, totally. And it was it was very hard for me to like, let go because people come to me professionally for parenting advice, you know? And so to be, to have to be like, I'm no longer taking my own advice. Yeah. Gosh. Like, it's hard to let go of those ideals. Like, you know what? Like, like like the whole like don't reward them for crying by giving them candy. Like, you know, like, sometimes for my own sanity. Like, I'm just gonna have to throw chocolate at you. Just like. Like here, please. I just need, like, ten minutes of quiet, please. Yes, but. So then, her favorite show was Cocomelon. Okay. And I don't know if you've done any research on Cocomelon. If it came after my kiddos, so I'm not too sure. Fill me in. So cocomelon. There's been lots of studies done. I find this out like after months of her watching this and her being an angry kid. That because of the quick transitions and something about the way the show is set up, it's actually it angers children. It's something triggering in their brain, and it makes them rages. And I'm like, oh, great. Of course, her favorite TV show that I use for my sanity right, is the TV show that's like, you shouldn't let them watch this. Of course. Of course. But then, now she likes Bluey, but like, blue is amazing. I recommend it for all kids. Like parents. Like, she's polite and does the cutest things and says the cutest phrases now like stop watching cocomelon and do Bluey. Here's your plug for Bluey. Yeah, seriously, like I will. I love Bluey, blue is great, so I never watched it. Can you give me just like a quick summary like what is Bluey again? My kids are older. They would look at something like that, go, oh that's a baby. So yeah. So it's it's adorable. It's like these little Australian dogs. It's like a cartoon about. And so they have an adorable accent, you know, and, and there's this cute little family that has they go through everyday life problems like, oh, we're moving today. This hat brings up a lot of sad emotions, but this is how we're going to handle our emotions. You know, as a family together will work through this problem or or you know, your fish died, you know, like real life kid problems, you know, and how as a family, they work together to, to like, handle these little problems that come up in everyday life and, and it it I think they do such a great job on this. And when I look I mean just from your your synopsis there is I heard you mentioned kind of the word together and like, you know, doing things, problem solving together like multiple times just in that short, like, you know, two minute synopsis that you gave me there. And I absolutely love that idea of the togetherness. I think that that's so incredibly helpful when we're talking about raising kids, because it can feel super lonely and it can feel like, what do we do? And it's if the mantra is like, hey, let's figure this out together. Like, it's not just that you handle your own problems and figure your stuff out and then come back to me. You know, I think that that's that's amazing. Very cool. Yeah, I love that show. It's helped so much, which once again, it's weird to be like a TV show helped. But no, it's really. Yeah. Okay. But the main thing, besides, like, the protein and the red food dye and pay attention to what she's watching on TV. The main big thing that helped with her, I took almost three years. Like when my kids have problems, I want to help. You know? I want to give them love. I want to hug them. I want to help them work through it. I want to give them my toy or candy, you know, something to help with the situation. Yeah. I realized with her, because one day, like, she she was having a meltdown and it was it was becoming violent, and I was and I just I didn't know what to do, so I, I, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to put you in your room. Your room is full of soft blankets, stuffed animals. If you feel the need to throw things, throw a stuffed animal, throw it. Just not don't throw hard things. Yeah, don't don't hurt people. Don't hurt yourself. Just just get it out. I'm going to sit here and, you know, basically cry because I don't know how to help you. And it is the craziest thing. I stuck her in there. She had her meltdown and it wasn't very big. It wasn't as big as it normally is. And then when she was done, she came out and was like, mommy, can I have a hug now? I love you, I'm sorry. It's like, whoa, whoa. Yeah. What? Like, wait, wait. And then I kind of I was like, wait a minute. This kid is literally like. Like a match. Like with fire. Like you. How she's going to light up. She's going to get angry, and. But you just have to let her burn on her own. Like, if you if I do anything or if anyone else tries to insert themselves to help. It's like throwing gasoline on this little fire. But if you just let her, if you just let her letter process it. Letter, let her deal with it on her own, she'll deal with it. And then she'll come when she's ready and then she'll she'll let you help her then. But she needs like a little bit of time to herself to like, kind of lose it, which is maybe not the greatest, but that, that has helped so much. We no longer do the screaming. She's calmed down, like just letting her have her emotions for a few minutes on her own, in a safe environment without me trying to fix it or anyone else. Yeah. It helps. Well, you know, what's so interesting about what you just said is, on my my end of things. Right? So my background, we do a lot of that, that same kind of studies. As far as understanding kind of the brain and what's going on mental health wise. And I think that's exactly it. So many times we've got this, this idea, right, that we we've got to fix our emotions. We've got to make them, especially the ones that are, you know, quote unquote, negative emotions like, oh, they're bad. Like, let's just get over them as fast as we can. And the difficulty is then they don't get kind of the time and space that they need and that that really is good for them to be able to kind of have that breathing room just like that. The Inside Out movie is great. We talk about being able to kind of give them their spaces and their time, and then once they, they feel seen, once they, they feel heard, and validated in that way and whatever that looks like. So for her, it sounds like, you know, maybe she needs kind of that, that fresh room, that rage room kind of that, that you see advertised. Right. And, you know, that is a way that she's been able to kind of work through some of these things, give them their time, give them their space instead of just kind of trying to suppress it and then having it come out and all these really like uncontrolled, much bigger ways. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. It, I mean did on accident, but I'm like, okay, like if you need to feel your emotions for five minutes in order to not have to feel them for the next three hours, that's fine. Yeah. Okay. Before we go on, I've got myself all mixed up. Am I just transferring it then to my oven? Safe. Perfect. I could do that. All right. And so kind of. Is that since then, things have been more manageable. Or tell me more. Oh, yeah. Now, now she is like a way. She's way different. Like now where you can go most, most days without having problems or if we have a problem, you know, we we can be like, okay, give her space. No one, no one tried to do anything, you know, just let her. Let her deal with it. And then when she's done, she'll come out. She'll want her hug, she want to kiss. And then we all move on. So, yeah, it's just figuring that out about her that, like, you kind of have to treat her like fire, okay? Like that. Like, don't pour gasoline on her fire. Just let her fire burn out. Like, and I, I it's like a little thing I have to always remind myself. Because it's hard as a parent when you see your kid crying or you see a situation is developing, you want to instantly go and fix it or help them. And so it's it's it is hard to step back and be like, no, it's okay. Just let her letter read through it. Let her do whatever it is she has to do in her room by herself. But yes, it it has helped so much. Yeah. So I'm I'm curious, like, have you found other things that, that you've been able to kind of add to her toolbox that help her kind of work through those big emotions and be able to regulate? She loves art projects and puzzles. So. So I made sure her room is full of, like, soft things, you know? So if she feels the need to throw things, we're not throwing chairs. We're throwing a stuffed animal. And then if she still needs alone time after she's released her or her demons or whatever, then there's art projects that she can do without my help. Like it if she makes a mess with it, I'm not going to be like, oh no, there's paint on the carpet. It's like crayons or, you know, things that she can do on her own, puzzles she can do without my help. And so there's a lot of, like, by herself, stuff that she can sit there and she can do and decompress. And then once she's done, she and ready, like, I don't try to force her to come out or, or anything. When she's ready, she comes out and then so usually want love and hug and and that that's that's mostly it is. Yeah. Paying attention and and we don't wake her up like my, my oldest, my oldest, she doesn't get enough sleep or we want to do something early for the day like she's she can handle it. Whereas okay, my youngest I'm like nope, she is going to she's going to get her her to her full. Yeah. Whole sleep. So we let her sleep until she wakes up. Okay. It's gonna be interesting when school starts that that's still a huge concern of mine, because obviously in school, we're going to have to handle things very differently. But. So how old was she? When you kind of found this, this hack, if you will, to kind of help her with her emotions because I know you said, you know, 12 sitters right before she turned one. And so, like, where are we in that? Her timeline then probably about three years old. Okay. Yeah. It's time. Wow. So three years of of kind of having to navigate that kind of state and seeing your kiddo kind of just be, gosh, so overwhelmed. I imagine with, I imagine that doesn't feel great in the body for, for your kid. And then to kind of watch that as a parent and, and just be at your wit's end of, of how do I help? How do I make it better for everybody? Yeah. And there's so many, like, moments I can think of that were hard like, like is you'll get parenting advice from everyone. And I can't tell you the amount of people who were like, you just need to, like, get like her, her like like, you know, you're thinking, or you need to give her. And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing that. So that was not that was like a hard boundary for me where I'm like, you know, maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a good smack would solve my problems. But that's not how I parent. You know, I'm I'm just not doing it. And so maybe that made it a lot harder for me. But at least that is one thing in my parenting journey where I was like, you know what, TV find sugar? I'm not gonna I'm not crossing that line. And when you have a lot of older people who want to, like, insert themselves in the situation, and that's how the generation did things to sit there and be like, no, I mean, what would you respond to? Because I gosh, I, I know I've heard similar things. I imagine other parents listening have heard similar, you know, people kind of advocating for this. Like how do you, in the face of that, still kind of stick to your like stick to your boundaries like you mentioned and say, hey, this is a hard line I'm not willing to cross. Like, how did you respond? How did you deal with that? So mostly it was a lot of nodding, smiling, like, if I obviously I'm not letting anyone else touch my kid, you know? So I wasn't really anything I had to deal with. But as far as like them telling me it was, it was it. Depending on the situation, it was either a lot of nodding and smiling like, okay, thanks for the advice. Like whatever. Or like, no, that's not what we're doing or whatever, but it was a lot of having to walk outside for a minute and remind myself, like, you know what? Maybe in this moment it might help. It might help me, you know, if, you know, if I were to just, you know, shock her into silence. But that's not going to help her, you know, that's that in in the long run, it helps my peace for five minutes. It's not going to help her process things. It's not going to help her communicate. It's not going to help her. It a to satisfy me in this moment. And I can do other things in this moment to satisfy my need for peace. Like walk outside. Yeah. You know, or, you know, eat some chocolate myself or be like, tag my husband in like, how am I need I need to go get my nails done. I'll be back like you. You handle this for an hour or there is a lot of going to the park. Just like, go be free. Go, go. Run, please. Some of it. She loved the swings she was playing. She loves the swings. So it was like, okay, you know what? We'll go to the swings. And she would do the swings for hours. So it was wild. And it was a lot of of reminding myself like, this would help me, not her. And I need to help her. Yeah. And also sounds like it really challenged you to have to find your own coping skills to be able to kind of work through. Okay, I could do this. I can I can keep going. It it's going to take work on my end. Like you said, it may not be the the quick and easy. Yeah. Yeah. But that it sounds like you were able to kind of find your way and find your own, you know, skills that kind of helped you be able to to write it out as well? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I needed my own coping skills because my first did not give me any. So I mean, you know, this is by the glass, you know, half full of that. It sounds like it allowed you an opportunity to kind of grow in some of those ways that maybe you didn't get the challenge the first time. Yeah, I had to I, I made, like, a joke with myself. Like everything was a mom level up, you know, like, so like something crazy would happen or we'd. And I'd be like, all right. I leveled up as a mom today, you know, like, like a video game character. Absolutely. And I think that's a great way to to reframe that instead of like, hey, this is just hard all the time and kind of getting stuck in that mindset of like, hey, you know what? This is a challenge. It means I get to learn something new so that I can level up. And now we go on to the next level and, you know, eventually, hopefully reach our figure to do. And you get your your prize and your trophy maybe I don't know if that actually exists in parenthood, but you can hope for it. Yeah hopefully. Well and it's funny. So I've been seeing a lot of like negative things about her, but she's also very funny. Like she wasn't like this constant horror show. Like I'm making her out to be. She's a Gemini. So I don't know if you're into astrology at all, but. So Geminis are very much they're called the twins, where they have two different personalities. So as much as she could be cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and is like going off the deep end, she could instantly swing back into like the funniest, most loving, like sweetest kid you've ever met. And you're like. And it's funny because for other people, she will be. She'll be like. And they'll be like, oh, she's the sweetest kid I've ever met. And you're like, okay, who are you talking about? We're always talking at her. Yeah, yeah. But and you know what? I feel like I've heard that a lot from from the second kids. I don't know if it's just everyone that I've spoken to you, but I know that I can absolutely relate. My my husband and I, we we would call her our youngest, who is also our second, you know, kind of, oh my gosh, you know, in a Sour Patch Sour Patch Kid where like, it could very much be that like, you know, chopping your hair off while you sleep. And then the next morning when you get up, it's like hugs and kisses and oh my gosh, I love you so much. And like, what just happened? Yep, yep. So that second kid energy. Yeah, it's funny because as crazy as it is, like it wouldn't change it or change her like. She, she's pretty awesome I think as long as like we, we make it to adulthood she'll do something really awesome. Like. Yeah. But oh that was another thing I was going to say her I it got to the point with her where I was like maybe she's autistic. Okay I, I couldn't, I just couldn't figure out why she was so fiery. So I did actually have her evaluated at one point and they're like, no, she's just a little firecracker. She's like, so but yeah, we're we're talk. If you want to talk about like deep levels of thinking, like trying to figure out, I was like, I even went down that road where it's like, maybe, maybe I'm in denial. And there is, you know, some more going on. But yeah, yeah, was that I mean, even just making the call and kind of the, the humbleness, the fortitude, whatever word you want to use that it takes to kind of even get to that point of being willing to go out and to to seek support and, you know, whether it's an assessment or whatnot. Like, was that a difficult kind of, you know, barrier to get past? Yeah. I mean, it's it's hard to try to like, look yourself in the mirror and be like, okay, you need help. You know, maybe like, maybe you are doing that like, oh, it's a mother's love. She's, you know, there's nothing wrong with your kid, like, kind of situation and like to try to look yourself in the mirror and be like, maybe there, maybe there is maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe she does have something going on. And you're just like, living in denial for the last three years. But no, I took her. And I mean, it it it's funny because it's like a relief to find out, like, now. Like she's she she's not on the spectrum. But then also you're we're back to like, okay, so whatnot. Yeah. So we're way excuses there. There's no excuse like she. Yeah. This is no little firecracker okay. Like yeah I don't know if it would have been a relief to find out that there was a reason or if I don't know. I mean, not that you want to find out that there's something wrong. You know, I can appreciate that. I think it's also what you mentioned, just having more answers. Because now if we have the answer now, we can start looking at like, you know, geared research kind of solves and fixes because we know what we're addressing versus when it's very nebulous and you don't have any answers and you're just kind of flailing, trying whatever to to help fix it and hope that it sticks. But you kind of don't know what you're trying to address. I imagine that that can be really difficult. Yeah, that, that that summed it up really, really well. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm so curious, like for you, what were there any like, insights or resources that you wish you knew about sooner? I think well, it would have been really nice to know, like, from the beginning about, like the cocomelon and the red food dye and, I mean, I it's weird because a lot of the things seem like common sense things. Once you put the like little moment on it. Okay. Like, I feel like every parent at this point knows you're not supposed to give your kid red food dye or, you know, feed them sugar bombs for breakfast. Like, that's like, like obviously. But, you know, I guess I didn't take it as serious like, I knew it, but I didn't take it as serious as maybe I should have, because maybe you heard about it. But I heard it. But my first was able to like, if I, if she had red food dye, it was not the end of the world. Like we went on our merry way. Where is with my second? It was like, oh no, for real? Yeah, well, this really, really affects her like a lot. And I think that's a really great point because again, it's that whole idea that it's not a one size fits all. And so your kiddo is going to be unique. So maybe one, you know, one kiddo, it doesn't really impact them as much. Or you know, as noticeably maybe. However for the next kid it might. And so, you know, if you're trying to kind of fit them in the same exact size box and it sounds like it may not work, it does not work. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that was it would have I guess helped knowing that like when people say, oh, each kid is going to be different. They, they, they don't mean like in the cutesy like, oh, this kid's going to be into this type of clothing and this kid's going to be into this type of music. They like it for real. They're like, oh, completely and utterly different in every way. People think, wow, even if they look alike and sound alike, and they're both your kids and they have the same parents. Nope. They're they're so different. Wow. I'm curious. Would would anything be different? Like if you had a time machine and you could go back in time and tell yourself something, either whether it's to prepare yourself or even, you know, something that you can share with others that might be experiencing something similar, like what would you tell yourself or how would you prepare yourself differently? Maybe, I mean, I never would have introduced Cocomelon. Okay. I would have something. I think we've got no one. Yeah, I would have started Bluey way, way a long time ago, but mostly a lot of, like, going outside. Like, if it's too much, don't don't let your house become a prison. Like, if your kid's screaming, it's still okay to take them to the park. You know, I mean it like, take take them outside. Give yourself some room. I mean, if it's if it's to the point that it's a problem and, you know, your kid won't stop screaming at the park, at least, at least give it some time. Give your kid a chance to to find something that's interesting to them. Because, yeah, it's not okay to take them to the library if they're screaming or whatever. But mostly I mostly go outside. Being outside helps your sanity. It helps them. It just seems to help overall. If you can find a way to get outside without like bothering too many people do that and to sort of go for it. Oh, it's just things that I was just going to ask, you know, you mentioned that, you know, going out and kind of that, that public perspective, was that ever something that you encountered where people were, maybe shaming you or, you know, giving you dirty looks with the screaming? So looking back, there's a lot of times that, I, I think I was mentally shaming myself more so than necessarily other parents because there, there were so many times I was actually surprised that the cops didn't get called, like, because I, I swear they probably looked like I was kidnaping my own child, like so many times. Oh my goodness. Like trying to leave Costco or trying to leave a park, you know, or something that she was actually into, you know, or she wasn't into. And it was like, okay, it is time to go. Because at this point we're being a disruption to like, other people. So if I look back on it, I don't know that I was necessarily getting all of those dirty looks or those judgments. You know, it was it was a lot of me doing it to myself, you know, because I feel like other parents, especially other parents with, like, the dragging kids or just kids that aren't unicorns, like, they understand they've been there. Other parents have been there. So, you know, and other parents, I've had other parents come up and offer to help me, you know, and we're like, was that helpful? Yes, yes, depending on the situation. I mean, so I feel like I did a lot of self-isolating because there's a lot of like, oh, don't trust other strangers. You know what they're trying to steal your kid or, you know, whatever. So then you have to do the whole like mental, like, oh, wait, this is actually like just a mom who, like, she understands what you're going through. Like, she gets it, she gets it. Accept the help. Like, yeah, like, don't sit there and make it worse mentally for yourself, you know? So I if I could go back, I probably would have given myself an extra five minutes, you know, at the park, or I would have been more receptive to the mom that came up to to help, you know, like, thank you. Like, yes, I could use a five minute flex. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, thank you or thank you for not calling the cops on me. I promise this was my kid. Yeah, I'm just trying to take her home because I realize, I mean, she's having a moment, but. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that I was just gonna say. I think that that's such a huge piece that you just mentioned that self shame. I feel like I said, parents are really, really good at doing that of just like really seeing this and being kind of, most critical person about what's happening. And are there people out there that might be giving you dirty looks? Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of jerks out there. However, like you said, that there might be more people than you think that are going I feel you like I see you and hear, how can I help? And are willing to help. Even, like you said, if it's just for five minutes. And sometimes it can be really hard to see that when you are just so entrenched in your self shame, your self guilt. Even so. Wow. Gosh. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Now, if I could go back and be like, tell all the parents, give yourself five more minutes to breathe and to to to realize that all of your negative thoughts that they're your thoughts are not necessarily their thoughts. And even if it is their thoughts, it's fine. Like get give everyone a little more time to to let the situation decompress. And you breathe your kid breathe, everyone just. Yeah. Gently away. All right, so I've got my my prep that I'll put in the oven. I did ahead of time. Kind of prep us with with them now. So when you have this, do you just eat it by yourself or like what's your guys's favorite favorite way to chips? Tortilla chips. Yes. Okay. I already have a bag of tortilla chips waiting. So once this is cooked well, once it's nice and hot and bubbly, we will dig in with the tortilla chips. Yeah okay, so I will make sure to have some tortilla chips. I'm sure my kiddos will love it. And like I said, a great way. It's got you got your sentence in here. You got your artichokes. Get them a little of those, good fats as well. I feel you on the lower, side of the growth. I've been hearing that narrative about my own kiddos since they were born, so I. I feel that I guess what my kids are also, they're thriving. They're growing just fine. Yes, they're smaller, but mom and dad are short people, too, so we can't really ask a whole lot from, oh, say my husband's five foot four, I'm five foot two. And I'm like, my kids were never going to be. I mean, they weren't set up for six foot capabilities. And that's okay. Yes. Exactly. Like they're your little. It's fine. Yeah. And you know what? There's a ton of things that when you're shorter that you get to do that others can't. So exactly. There we go. Oh Melissa it was so great to have you on here. Thank you so much for being willing to share your story. I know that, talking about the harder sides of parenting, isn't as readily done as I wish it were. And so I really do appreciate you being willing to kind of help pull back the curtain and and show us that, gosh, it's it's hard and it takes work and I just I just want to thank you for taking that time for us in the. Thanks for having me. Yes. And thank you for sharing this recipe with us. I'm super excited to try it. And for everyone else, thank you so much for joining us. We'll make sure to link, the recipe that Melissa shared with us today. Thanks so much. If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe, social media support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes, so make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe, and stay up to date on all things the real family eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food. Enjoy your eats!