A Mother's Battle: Breast Cancer Journey + Grandpa's Mac | Real Parents, Real Struggles, & Recipe Sharing

Jamie Lauren, mom of 2 and middle school teacher, talks with our resident couples therapist for parents about their real parenting struggles. She is sharing navigating parenting challenges, the parent support and resources they found along the way, and any parenting tips they have discovered through their journey. While they chat parenting insights and stories, they are recipe sharing balancing parenting and family meals. Jamie shares getting a cancer diagnosis as a parent with young children and shares her family's mac and cheese recipe. She discusses her journey navigating spouse leaving, getting a divorce, becoming a single mother and getting diagnosed with breast cancer. Jamie opens up about her struggles with the toll of treatment, balancing caring for self and her children. Make sure to subscribe, like, and follow for more recipes and parenting tips. 

What's been a parenting challenge you've had? Share your story in the comments!

Have you tried the recipe? Share your thoughts in the comments!

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Grandpa's Macaroni and Cheese

INGREDIENTS:

Rigatoni Noodles 
1 can of Cream of Celery Soup 
Small block of Velveeta (chopped)
Small block of White Sharp Cheddar Cheese (shredded)
Small Yellow Onion (chopped)
3-5 Celery Stock (chopped)
Stick of Butter 
Salt 
Pepper 
Ground Mustard 
Milk

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Cook noodles in boiling water to al dente.
2. In a separate pan, melt butter.
3. Sauté onions and celery.  
4. Mix in celery soup, milk, and cheese.
5. Mix until cheese is melted and mixed in.
6. Add seasonings to taste.
7. Mix 

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If you or your loved one is struggling with any of the topics discussed, here are some resources:

Casting for Recovery: https://castingforrecovery.org/

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Disclaimer:

The content provided on this podcast/YouTube channel is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice or treatment. While we aim to share valuable insights and promote mental well-being, our discussions and content are not a substitute for professional mental health services.

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

The views and opinions expressed by the host(s) and guests a

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist 104709. Reesa is a couples counselor for parents providing therapy in person in Murrieta, CA and virtual couples therapy in California. Reesa, also, hosts couples workshops and parenting workshops worldwide.

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe - https://linktr.ee/EmbraceRenewalTherapy

For the video version of this episode find us on www.youtube.com/@TheRealFamilyEats

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:

www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

00:00:06:14 - 00:00:22:10
Unknown
I am really just tired of surviving day to day with this heavy worry.

00:00:22:13 - 00:00:49:20
Unknown
Hey everyone. Thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories here on The Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat.

00:00:49:23 - 00:01:13:13
Unknown
Hey, everyone. So my guest today is the lovely Jamie. Hi, Jamie. Thank you so much for being on our show today. Hi. Thank you for inviting me. Yes, absolutely. I am so excited to chat with you today, as well as hear about this yummy recipe that you're going to share with us. But first, for anybody who doesn't know you, would you mind introducing yourself?

00:01:13:15 - 00:01:41:15
Unknown
Sure. I'm Jamie, I live in a rural town in Wyoming. I'm a mom of two boys, 12 and almost six, going on much older years than I expected. As far as my attitude. Yeah, I am a teacher. I've been teacher for two decades now and am moving into middle school science after teaching middle school math. So, lots of school and then come home to middle schoolers.

00:01:41:15 - 00:02:00:11
Unknown
So there's a lot of committees and, Fussing. And I'm like, yes, I was going to say, I mean, it takes a special person to be willing to work with middle schoolers.

00:02:00:13 - 00:02:13:27
Unknown
So thank you for your service. Yeah. Yeah. I think any hearing teachers have. It works. So, God bless the giving. Guaranteed for next year. That has my kid.

00:02:14:00 - 00:02:36:29
Unknown
It's just a different a different milestone, right? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'm so excited to have you on. And I know you've got a special recipe that you're sharing with us today, so I'd love to know about that. But first, you've also got a lovely resource that you found that you wanted to do a shout out to for our shameless plug section.

00:02:36:29 - 00:03:05:14
Unknown
So tell us about that. So casting for recovery is a breast cancer. Opportunity for women who are going through breast cancer have survived breast cancer 20 years ago. They offer free retreats. On the weekends, you apply, and it's once a year, and most states have them. They just, did their first Hawai'i's, casting for recovery.

00:03:05:16 - 00:03:43:05
Unknown
I was to participate in 2021 here in Wyoming, and it really was the start of my healing process. And it's not just for Fisher women. It's an actual it's just really a great support group to meet with women who have gone through breast cancer. I was only two months out from chemo when I went, and, but I met other single moms and, women who have survived for 20 years after their diagnosis, and it's just, an amazing, but organization that's sort of like an organization.

00:03:43:06 - 00:04:05:04
Unknown
So if you have breast cancer, or you're survivor breast cancer, but keep casting for recovery if you haven't and you feel like donating, those donations all go to the women that attend those retreats. Wow, that's so awesome. And I know you're going to talk to us a little bit about how that tie ends with with your parenting journey.

00:04:05:06 - 00:04:23:00
Unknown
We'll make sure to get all of that linked into our show notes. So for anybody that, that resonates with them, that that would be a support group right up your alley or someone you want to, donate to, we'll be able to find those links in our show notes, so make sure you check those out. Thank you.

00:04:23:03 - 00:04:48:24
Unknown
Yeah. So what is this recipe that you're sharing with us today? So this is great. Grandpa's mac and cheese. And, it's one that my family makes every special holiday and my dad always made. And then when I had my own household, I would call them every, like Thanksgiving Eve and Christmas, like 23rd, December 23rd and say, I need the recipe for mac and cheese.

00:04:48:27 - 00:05:12:19
Unknown
But I've now made it enough that it's memorized, so it's hard for me to give you measurements because I cannot go now with it. Oh my gosh, of mac and cheese. Maker of our family. Oh, that's a nice title. Very cool. Okay, so get me started. What do I need to be doing? First. And then we'll jump into kind of your story.

00:05:12:20 - 00:05:34:26
Unknown
Sure. I tried to make it in one pot, but two is easier. You're in. Boil your noodles. We use the fat rigatoni one. So the cheese gets inside, and it's delicious and gooey. Oh, yeah. And then in, like, a saute pan, I take four tablespoons of butter and I chop my celery and onions because my kids don't like green things.

00:05:34:28 - 00:05:55:05
Unknown
So they're very fine. And you just kind of saute them first. You're in lower elevation, so your water probably doesn't take as long to boil as mine does. Yeah. So I actually turn it on right before we started chatting. So I'm about at a boil. So I'm getting ready to add my noodles. And then I've got a second pot to do some of the other stuff.

00:05:55:05 - 00:06:18:19
Unknown
So you set it in my other pot I can do my sauté crack. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. All right. So I'll get this started. And while we do that, I know you mentioned you kind of alluded to it. That part of your journey does kind of incorporate your, your wellness and being diagnosed with breast cancer. And so I'd love to hear kind of that side of things.

00:06:18:19 - 00:06:47:21
Unknown
I mean, to, to have to have a diagnosis like that in the midst of parenting and kind of being able to show up does not sound easy. Yeah. It was quite a challenge. You know, 2020 was a rough year for everyone. Okay. That happened, to be the year my marriage also devolved and ended. And so as a teacher, we were trying to figure out things on our end for education, how to keep kids and ourselves safe.

00:06:47:21 - 00:07:15:28
Unknown
We were all kind of in lockdown, and, my husband decided that it was time for him to move on. So he, left in May 2020. So I was, a single mom with. Let's see, then eight. Oh, he wasn't quite eight, so almost seven and almost two. So very young kids. Very, very little. Yeah.

00:07:16:00 - 00:07:38:09
Unknown
Just kind of trying to figure that out. And then the fall of 2021 came and we went back to school in person. So how that, you know, that, was also very stressful for us going in the midst of divorce, which was a very, you know, prepares you for that. I don't think like you don't go into marriage ready for a divorce.

00:07:38:12 - 00:08:04:21
Unknown
Yeah. So so that was challenging. But I had my first mammogram, which I think is very important at 40. I had never been one for self-exams, but I do find that to be important, especially women in their 30s, since you can't have a mammogram. Graham. Quite yet. So I had my first mammogram, and they informed me that my breast tissue was too dense to see anything.

00:08:04:24 - 00:08:33:18
Unknown
So they expressed some concern and said, we would prefer you do an MRI opposite of your mammogram every year. So like every six months we're checking on you and, and that way we know we can see everything. Okay. Six months goes by, and I was supposed to have my MRI in December, and I ended up having it in January and January 5th of 2021, and we didn't even leave the parking lot.

00:08:33:18 - 00:08:59:26
Unknown
And the doctor called and said they found a mass, tumor. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, that's a good one. They're calling you outside the park, right? And that was fast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they wanted me to come in and do a biopsy to check if it was, in fact, cancer or something else, because there's other things that can happen in your breast, besides tumors.

00:08:59:29 - 00:09:20:09
Unknown
So another reason that you should always check yourself. And so I went in about a week later, and she called me the next day, and it was, in fact, cancer. So was kind of just then, this whirlwind, you know, single mom. Right? We're getting ready for court dates for a divorce. I'm still in the middle of teaching Covid.

00:09:20:09 - 00:09:46:27
Unknown
Still. We've been quarantined 2 or 3 times. So it's just like, wow. Okay, well, we're just going to, you know, survival kicks in and you just do what you have to do. Yeah. I'm so like, what was the narrative going on in your mind kind of at that moment, like you said, you've got almost just, like one thing after another.

00:09:46:27 - 00:10:27:23
Unknown
It sounds like that's your, you know, that's a challenge on its own. And now we're kind of doing it all together. You know, what was going on for you? As I said, country song was describing my life. It's just waiting for my dog to die in my truck. Turn me over. Yeah. Okay. I was very, you know, my parents had just moved to our community a year prior, and so they really had stepped in and helped a lot with childcare and the boys.

00:10:27:23 - 00:10:53:07
Unknown
And whenever we were sick, you know how how you do that. So I had a good support system for the divorce part. Okay. My my friends and community were very good as well. And then when the cancer diagnosis came in, it was like a rally between our local church, my school and the district. I was like, I'll just put off chemo till the summer.

00:10:53:07 - 00:11:14:07
Unknown
It'll be fine. We'll get through this school year. And they're like, no, here, can I do chemo? And you're supposed to. Yeah. So tell me what, why was that your go to of like, oh, you know, I'll, I'll wait till the summer. You know, it almost sounds like kind of this idea of, like, I don't want to inconvenience anyone, even though, I mean, yeah, you just got diagnosed with cancer.

00:11:14:09 - 00:11:37:14
Unknown
So, something about a teacher job is that it's sometimes a lot easier just to go in sick than to do all the sub plans. And I didn't know what that was going to look like now. I honestly believe through God's direction, we had, a teacher who had taught underneath me and taught fifth grade. I taught fifth grade at the time, and so she knew everything.

00:11:37:14 - 00:11:56:23
Unknown
About fifth grade. We were headed into testing season. And fifth grade is a big testing year. And so I was really like, oh my gosh. And they're like, would you stop and go do what you need to do? You you take care of yourself. We have this teacher in place, and she took over and did a phenomenal job.

00:11:56:23 - 00:12:24:16
Unknown
And so, and my boss and the district were just incredible, supports for that. And they were just like, no, you do what you need to do. And, we will take care of things for you. Don't worry about school. Wow. Do you think that some of that mentality of kind of worrying about everybody else and you kind of on that back burner.

00:12:24:19 - 00:12:47:10
Unknown
Is that something that has always been a part of your narrative? Do you think that kind of intensified? I feel like I hear that a lot with parents where we're so good at, like, let's care for everything else, make sure put out all those other fires that were kind of last spots when it comes to like our, our own self, our own wellness.

00:12:47:13 - 00:13:11:23
Unknown
Yeah, I do think moms especially, I am not a dad or a male, so I don't like I can't speak for that gender. But I do think moms, especially, you know, especially single moms, we put everybody else first. You know, we want to make sure our kids aren't lacking because they're lacking this, structured household, this picture perfect, you know, two parent family, they're now lacking that.

00:13:11:23 - 00:13:33:15
Unknown
A lot of times kids are going back and forth between jobs or sorry, they're not working. They're going back and forth between parents. And that's such an instability in kids lives. Coming back from usually it's typically a very, free non rule household and then having to come back to mom's house where we have school work and all those things.

00:13:33:18 - 00:14:01:08
Unknown
And I do think that's a struggle for a lot of single moms, and have, have to experience that. I don't have to because my kids dad lives so far away. He does not see them very often, but, I do think you're trying to do so much and and then having only one income, you're really working to keep that job and to make sure that you're finding favor with your boss so you can keep that job.

00:14:01:10 - 00:14:30:06
Unknown
Yeah. Almost like there's, you know, a lot more at stake, like you said, when you're kind of it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that for you that was part of your narrative that you had kind of in your brain that because of the divorce that, you know, your house is now kind of less than. So we need to, to do something more to be able to kind of make up for that.

00:14:30:09 - 00:14:52:01
Unknown
Yes. Especially when so, the surgeries came with the breast cancer. So on February 1st, I had my first lumpectomy and they didn't clear margins and there was miscommunication. So they woke me up and we moved on. And then later on that week we found out we'd have to go back in. So I went back in the next week on February 5th.

00:14:52:01 - 00:15:12:27
Unknown
Oh, sorry. February 7th. And had a second of what? Claire? Oh, I was just going to ask for those that don't know kind of anything about breast cancer. Like what? What do you mean by Claire margins? Like, can you tell me more about that? So from what I understand in my layman's reading, tumors cells, tumor cells. Right.

00:15:13:00 - 00:15:45:05
Unknown
Should have, like, a stopping point. And so when I went to take out the tumor, which was not a huge tumor, they couldn't get clear non cancer cells. They couldn't get enough of the, biopsy or, the flush out enough that they had non cancer cells. Okay. Gotcha. So they would send that to the lab and then the lab came back in there like there's not clear margins here.

00:15:45:05 - 00:16:12:28
Unknown
So then I had to go back the next week. And I it was a fairly busty woman. So I double DS there is a lot of breast tissue there. And they went and he took out probably half of my breast tissue and still couldn't find a clear margin. So then the plan. Yeah. So then the care plan changed to, we have to do a mastectomy because you're right, breast can be the same way.

00:16:12:28 - 00:16:33:17
Unknown
We just don't know. So it was it was a pretty scary time at that time where, you know, we probably need to go ahead and do a full double mastectomy where they remove all the breast tissue. Yeah. I heard you mentioned, you know, scary time. I mean, what's going on in your brain, like when you hear those words?

00:16:33:20 - 00:16:59:11
Unknown
I mean, can you tell me more about that? Sure. So I think the scariest thing is when we went to the doctor and my dad, mom came with me and my dad almost broke down and asked if I was going to survive this. You know what, exactly? Because we have two young kids here, you know? Yeah. And, and so the doctor reassured him it was just stage one.

00:16:59:14 - 00:17:25:15
Unknown
I think I was one b or something. And so it wasn't, you know, it's treatable. It's going to be a little bit of a long road at this time. We didn't know the exact care plan. Other than the surgeries, but it like, she's going to live through this. You're not going to lose her. But just watching my parents go through that, and then at the same time trying to raise it.

00:17:25:17 - 00:17:48:26
Unknown
And now two and a half year old who has no idea what's going on, and then my now eight year old, who knows but doesn't quite understand, plus, you know, work. And I'm still in the middle of divorce proceedings. So I had my first, one back to me on February 1st and my divorce wasn't final till later on that week.

00:17:48:26 - 00:18:16:05
Unknown
I was laying in bed for recovery when my lawyer called and said the divorce was final. Wow. So? So really in it? Yeah, yeah. And I, I really do. I think my near to I remember crying a lot and listening to worship music the same song. I wish I could remember names as well as I do how to teach strategies.

00:18:16:05 - 00:18:39:26
Unknown
But it was, you know, be still my soul and just that. Peace. Praying over and over again. Like, I have no idea how we're going to get through this, you know? And then so we are still living in our own home, but, before my double mastectomy, my parents moved us into their house. So now my kids have lost their dad.

00:18:39:29 - 00:19:14:15
Unknown
Their mom is sick, and they've lost their home. And so it was just like, how do I help my kids through this? And how do I make this as normal as I can? Yeah. And gosh, that's such a, a hard one to navigate while also still, you know, doing very real things that need to happen for your wellbeing so that you can stick around and you can be there for, for these young kids, as you mentioned.

00:19:14:17 - 00:19:41:16
Unknown
I'm so curious. You know, I heard you kind of talk a little bit about, you know, that that your kiddos knew kind of something was happening. One of them, at least in the younger one, not so much. Like, how do you have that conversation? What did that look like? So I have Nathan's a very black and white, factual kind of kid.

00:19:41:16 - 00:20:02:16
Unknown
He always has been. When he would get in trouble, he'd have to know the reason why. And then every the punishment would have to be the same every single time. He's just. He's just kind of that boundary pusher. And so just black and white. Hey, mommy's got bad cells in her body. And she's got me going to the doctor a lot.

00:20:02:18 - 00:20:32:13
Unknown
I didn't I didn't really consider feelings of mental health or wellness as much as I maybe should have at that time, because frankly, I don't. I didn't know about it as much as I do now. You know, we've been pushing mental health and awareness, in our schools and in our professional development. I wish I had sat down and, really talked about those feelings more with him.

00:20:32:16 - 00:21:20:21
Unknown
I he's very resilient. He had been through the same things I had been through, from a kid perspective. So, it really led we were able to have some really good conversations. That led into. I used it to talk about puberty later on, because he's getting old enough that that was starting to be an issue with kids at school, and I wanted him to hear from me versus kids at school about, our thoughts and our ideals about sex and so it kind of open that up because I was cutting off such a feminine body part that it was easy to, it led into a lot of those deeper conversations.

00:21:20:24 - 00:21:45:12
Unknown
Gotcha. I heard you mentioned kind of, you know, looking back and I've, you know, maybe you would have taken more of that time, as you mentioned, for the kind of emotional piece of it in the mental wellness. Can you tell me more about kind of why you mention that and kind of what what were maybe even some of your hesitations back then?

00:21:45:14 - 00:22:18:03
Unknown
I'm not sure that they were hesitations. I'm just not sure that I knew how or what. Gotcha. Yeah. And so, you know, like I said, really, until the last year or two in our area, in our school, we're very well still we're very lacking in mental health care. We're very rural and and so to get that mental health care doesn't happen easily.

00:22:18:05 - 00:22:50:13
Unknown
But I probably should have, sat down with counselor a few times, even with him, just to help him talk it through. But he also is, an in the moment kind of kid. So if it's not affecting him in the moment, he really didn't like it. Didn't appear to bother him. Yeah. Would you say that as far as the mental health component, was that something that that was a part of your own narrative as well?

00:22:50:13 - 00:23:25:24
Unknown
Because I know you mentioned kind of your kiddo. I'm curious, kind of for yourself. And now looking back on it, kind of were there any insights or maybe thoughts now knowing the information that that, you know, like you said, with more awareness? Yeah, I think, I think if I had to do that experience over again, knowing what I know now, I would definitely, make some appointments with they had a social worker at the oncology center as a family, you know, my mom and dad, and Nathan and I, just all had been too little.

00:23:25:24 - 00:23:57:05
Unknown
But he even just to be there, just to kind of sit and work through those feelings and, hey, it's okay to feel these feelings so you can feel whatever feelings you're wanting, you know, and having more frequent check ins. But frankly, once, once I had that mastectomy, those two weeks right after were such a blur. But then I started chemo in April, late April, early May, and I don't remember much.

00:23:57:07 - 00:24:11:03
Unknown
Okay. Is that a common side effect for the chemo? I think that was your brain's way of protecting you.

00:24:11:06 - 00:24:36:20
Unknown
I think it was. And then, of course, they give you so many medications, that I really found myself journaling more. And then now they'll pop up like I would put it on privately in Facebook and had journaled some things, experiences. And I read those now and I'm like, really? That's what I went through, you know, it just came out okay.

00:24:36:23 - 00:25:01:14
Unknown
Yeah. Those feelings, those really raw feelings that you really shouldn't put on Facebook. So I put it on the private page so I can at least write it out for my own, my own sanity. And just to get it out and know that maybe I'm not a crazy person after all. Yeah. And then to but it's it's to reread those years later.

00:25:01:17 - 00:25:30:07
Unknown
It's like, wow, I really did overcome a lot in two years. You know, when you're in the midst of it, you don't realize exactly what's happening. Yeah. And that's it. You know what? That you mentioned that, that tip on both of of writing something on Facebook and doing it to the private only and using that as kind of a journal, because I think that's that's such a unique resource that I would have never thought about.

00:25:30:09 - 00:25:50:10
Unknown
And to be able to do it, like you said, in kind of people keeping it more as that journal piece of it. And to really be able to have a place where it sounds like for you it was a place to go to, to put everything that might be kind of ruminating in there and get it outside of yourself.

00:25:50:10 - 00:26:15:24
Unknown
And that, like you said, now it sounds like it's been able, you know, to be a reminder of maybe what you have, endured, but also overcome. Yes. Yeah. That's huge. Was that something that just came to you? Did someone else tell you about that? Because I've never heard that that little like, pro tip before of using Facebook in future.

00:26:15:24 - 00:26:38:11
Unknown
No, I, I had found I liked writing. Of course, when you write your whole raw feelings on Facebook, like people get upset with that and. Why do you say that? Tell me more. Oh my gosh, I want to hear more about that. If someone you know, I'm in my 40s now, so if somebody bothers me, like, I just like whatever, like go live your life.

00:26:38:13 - 00:27:02:02
Unknown
But when you're in your 20s, in your 30s, like, everything is still so sensitive and you're still kind of in, you know, that high school mentality of, oh, these people. So like me or this people, really, these people really hurt my feelings, you know? And so you put it out there, like, if you don't like me and you want to talk bad about me, you don't want to be like, just a silly thing.

00:27:02:04 - 00:27:12:15
Unknown
And you look back in your 40s and 50, so in your 20s and 30s, understand? By the time you hit 40 and 50, you're too tired. You don't care. But.

00:27:12:17 - 00:27:41:12
Unknown
You know, just when you're going through that, everything seems so important and you want everybody to like you. And so then it becomes this drama on Facebook. Right? And in the Facebook bullying area. Now, now you kids use your, your ex and your Instagrams and you. I'm old school AOL and Myspace. Maybe. So what are we at?

00:27:41:13 - 00:28:09:16
Unknown
I'm still learning some of those. I have to have my my younger siblings teach me about social media. I always tell my students back at the 1900s, I love that. Yeah, but I just, you know, when you put that out, there, I am. I need to get it at once. I have those feelings out. I always call it, but, like, I have a brain dump.

00:28:09:16 - 00:28:35:02
Unknown
Like, I have to have a diary of the brain. Yeah. When thinking, when I'm planning, if I can just get it out, that I know that I won't forget, you know, or, you know, it'll be just this idea that just sparks other things. So even when I'm teaching or planning, but especially with my feelings in that whole situation, I mean, there were some incredible moments throughout that, throughout that process.

00:28:35:04 - 00:29:06:09
Unknown
Yeah. After shortly after my second lot back to me. So I had, like, I woke up one day and it just felt tight. Now I remember I'm missing half my breast tissue out of my left side, but it just felt tight. And as the day wear on, my double T became a double F, and then I'd be quick, put it bursting out of my bra.

00:29:06:12 - 00:29:28:28
Unknown
And sorry if this is too much information for people listening, but but this is this is the real stuff, guys. Exactly. That's what we're going for. And so I had a friend drive me my mom watch James Fox, who is super little I don't remember maybe she had Nathan too. And so I had a friend drive me to the breast center, to the surgeon.

00:29:28:28 - 00:29:56:13
Unknown
And he tried with this little teeny needle to try to get some of this excess weight. Remember, my breast tissue was very dense. So then you touched it? Not even. It was like sticking, butter knife into the Hoover Dam, like, oh, my goodness. Like nothing. Right. So they found them at the breast center and by now I'm like slightly feverish and like, just in so much pain and so uncomfortable.

00:29:56:15 - 00:30:28:00
Unknown
And they they open up. I remember from opening up my dressing gown and it was the doctor, the, ultrasound tech and the nurse. And we had actually had done my initial, biopsy of my breast and put in the marker. And so we'd like this is the third or fourth time we've met. And their faces were in this shock and horror, and they oh my goodness, the condition.

00:30:28:03 - 00:30:52:28
Unknown
And as a patient to like see these care professionals. Right. They're supposed to be the the experts in there to kind of have that. I imagined that would be so scary and overwhelming. So I was like, it's pretty bad. And they're like, yeah. So then she begins to try to extract this extra fluid. But remember, I'm very like, I'm like a rawhide rhino here.

00:30:53:01 - 00:31:29:06
Unknown
And she cannot get the needle to come to get through the breast tissue to get to where essentially this open crater fluid has formed. And so they she sent the ultrasound tech and the, the, nurse to go down to the O.R. and get like, abdominal, like abdominal, plungers, thicker needles, a bucket, a bucket. Over there.

00:31:29:09 - 00:31:52:27
Unknown
And she finally penetrate to get to where all this fluid is. And she is just pulling more and more. It's just the two of us. So I'm. And I'm not sanitized enough to help. Like, I didn't wash my hands to help with the procedure. Right. I'm just laying there for this close on me. I don't think people go in there thinking that they're going to help with their own procedure.

00:31:53:00 - 00:32:18:05
Unknown
Yeah. For sure. So she's pulling and then she'd get another one and pull and just pull and miles of vials. And her hand was like shaking in Spain. She's a very fit woman. She's very athletic. This is she's very strong. And so she's like sweating and shaking. And we get down to the last vial and the other two ladies walk in and they're like, we have everything.

00:32:18:05 - 00:32:47:09
Unknown
And we both look at them like, you're too late. We need to do. A long time ago. But at one point we all broke out singing during the middle of the procedure. Oh my goodness. Like, what a bizarre and interesting story it took her to walk away from. So you know, so you if those are sauteed you can pour your celery soup in and fill it with milk and pour it.

00:32:47:09 - 00:33:00:01
Unknown
And also perfect. So actually I'm going to before we continue I'm going to go drain my noodles and I'll be right back. Oh right.

00:33:00:03 - 00:33:37:13
Unknown
So that's what I wrote down in my journal. Yeah. And then you're saying that like to this day don't necessarily. It wasn't like front of mind kind of remembering those stories. Right, right. So then I read those and I just I laugh because it was a lot to go through. Yes. Yeah. Was there anything kind of looking back on some of that, that because I heard you mention even just like an insight and awareness, maybe even a, a compassion to yourself of how much you have accomplished?

00:33:37:13 - 00:34:15:02
Unknown
Was there a particular one that for you, you read and you was just kind of that moment or that just, you know, altering kind of that, that mindset for you? No, honestly, I probably haven't really. It's only been the last few months that I've really begun to reflect on those things. So much in my life had changed in those 2 or 3 years that you were still trying to go through it.

00:34:15:04 - 00:34:37:08
Unknown
And so just recently, over the last six months, I've been seeing a counselor to the oncology center, and she's kind of brought some of those things to light where, you know, you really did like, that's not a normal journey. You know, her journey. And I always kind of, you know, I, I only had four rounds of really of chemo and I didn't have any radiation.

00:34:37:11 - 00:34:59:29
Unknown
And so I always kind of felt like I didn't go through as much as other breast cancer patients. But when you're in that situation, you really can't compare stories ever. Even if you have a small, cancer, it's still cancer, right? And you still live with that fear afterwards, that, oh, is it going to come back, you know, and yeah.

00:35:00:00 - 00:35:22:26
Unknown
And I, I expressed that I, when I got my diagnosis, I had just grown out my hair at like 3 or 4 months prior from having James Paul. You just got that boil and then you'll add your cheese. Perfect. Now the, the cheddar. Do I want that grated, I grade mine. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. I can do that.

00:35:22:28 - 00:35:50:05
Unknown
And then I cut my Velveeta, like in blocks just so much faster. And then when it's all kind of gooey, then you put your noodles in there and it's ready. Okay. Yum. Oh, you were saying. So, I just paint growing out my hair where I really enjoyed it again. And it was long and and then. Yeah, it was about two months later I got my diagnosis and I knew I was going to lose it again.

00:35:50:07 - 00:36:11:24
Unknown
So now here I have, just like I've been growing it out since 2020, I'm sorry, since 2021. And I like I tell my hairdresser I'm like, we're going to get this out. And now I'm like, it's going to come back. I just knew it. You know, I'm I'm three years out. If you can make it to your five, your chances of of recurrence are very slim.

00:36:11:27 - 00:36:34:12
Unknown
I'm like, am I going to make it to your five. There's ladies that get to year seven and they get it again. So now that you've had like it's just this perpetual fear that's in the back of your mind in something's going wrong, you know, oh, I have this bone ache. Is it just because I'm old and exercised more than I should have, or lifted something that I haven't lifted?

00:36:34:12 - 00:36:57:09
Unknown
Or oh, is it bone cancer? So it's just this. And I'm not the only one that feels this way, so I apologize. I sound paranoid, but that's what people are going through when they've had cancer at least once. That yeah. Is it going to come back? Is it this again. And I think what you mentioned. Yeah I hear you saying you know the paranoia.

00:36:57:09 - 00:37:25:21
Unknown
But I think what you're mentioning sounds like it's very real to kind of your experience. And I know I've heard that from other folks as well where you do kind of live, it sounds like in this limbo land for quite some time and almost holding your breath. Yes. Yeah. And you just have to really make those choices. You know, last summer I took my boys on a road trip to the to Kentucky, and then we went up to Ohio by myself.

00:37:25:21 - 00:37:47:20
Unknown
First time I traveled with them by myself in a car. Without another grown up and it was really one of those kind of empowering steps, oh, I can do this. Like, I can live my life and we can do these things together as a family and build these memories. I think sometimes getting locked into that, oh, it's going to come back.

00:37:47:20 - 00:38:20:23
Unknown
It's, you know, this does hold you hostage and you don't live your life. So it's that key of then finding you even after divorce, finding, you know, how do you move on and, and live your life, you know? Yeah. What what do you think for you was that moment of like you said, I, you know, I have that choice in that moment.

00:38:20:25 - 00:38:49:11
Unknown
I, I think it was from the very earliest would have been that weekend at casting for recovery. Just that I'm not alone. And there's these women that have gone through this 20 years prior, when technology's technology was even, archaic at the time when you do chemo through I.V. veins and burn people, you know, veins out.

00:38:49:14 - 00:39:21:13
Unknown
Wow. But they're surviving, and they've thrived and they've raised their kids and now their own grandkids, and they've had their careers and and they've been successful. So to watch women go through that and see kind of the, the down the line 20 years down the line, I can do this was really that weekend for me. Yeah. There was still a lot of health issues following, my implants got infected.

00:39:21:16 - 00:39:48:26
Unknown
And just that recovery. It takes a long time to get over chemo. And, and just kind of those recoveries and then estrogen suppressors. So the cancer doesn't come back because mine was, estrogen fed cancer. Okay. It really I would say it probably was until 2023 where I was finally like, this is got to be the year that we don't have something that sucks.

00:39:48:28 - 00:40:20:12
Unknown
Oh my goodness. We had to have, like you said, 2023. Right? We have to be done just surviving today because this is the this is the year that we are going to, we are going to do these things and do them better. And we've got to move on from this. And so I don't know if there was an initial event that happened, but I was like, I am really just tired of surviving day to day with this heavy worry.

00:40:20:14 - 00:40:40:01
Unknown
Like it's not healthy for my boys. You know, Nathan went to sixth grade last year, and I really feel like I'm losing time with him before he graduates. James Paul starts kindergarten this year. You know, it's just time is going. My kids are getting older, and I can't sit in this fear of another diagnosis. If it comes, it comes.

00:40:40:01 - 00:41:06:09
Unknown
We'll get through it again. But I'm not. I can't hold back these memories for my kids out of fear for myself. Yeah. Was that a hard transition in your mind to me? Because I mean that, yeah, it really was, you know, in fact, I think in the summer of 2023, someone's like, hey, I'm doing this great weight loss program and you know, you want to try it.

00:41:06:09 - 00:41:11:16
Unknown
And I was like, you know, I don't even know who I am.

00:41:11:19 - 00:41:40:19
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Even process I don't know what you think. I had started grieving. I don't think I ever grieve for my divorce until this last year and a half. And I've been, oh, you know, you know, it's been four years, but I was so go, go, go try to survive. And then this cancer diagnosis that I really still had it fit this grieving through that, that loss and then the grief of cancer and what you think that your life should be like.

00:41:40:22 - 00:42:00:12
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like, no one plans their day to be like, hey, this year I'm going to get divorced, and I breast cancer and with the house. And like, no one sets out purposely to plan that, that I know if now there might be someone who does and Lord speed for you, but has not made each of my.

00:42:00:15 - 00:42:28:26
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, you mentioned kind of that grieving and that, you know, even now is probably kind of the first year that or, you know, since you know, that you've, you've started to broach some of that. And I imagine kind of similar to other folks, that grieving process is not as linear as that nice model that they used to, you know, so you have like, oh, this is how you grieve.

00:42:28:28 - 00:42:52:22
Unknown
My friend really spoke that to me. She, she lost her son this year to suicide. And she just looked at me. One day she goes, no one tells you how exhausting grief is. And I was like, boy, you hit that right on the head. Yeah. You're so exhausted. And I thought, you are absolutely cracked. And it is just you're just surviving.

00:42:52:22 - 00:43:12:13
Unknown
So it, you know, when you ask those questions or when a therapist ask you this, questions about what are those moments, what are you thinking of? And I'm going I don't know that I was I think I was just surviving, trying to put one foot in front of the other every day, you know, and you're just. And then the next thing you know, it's been a week and then it's been a month and then it's been a year.

00:43:12:16 - 00:43:41:16
Unknown
But it's just, I like just this last really 18 months that I'm like, okay, we can do this. Like we, we're going to move on and, and we're going to keep going. You know, because I'm going to miss out on chances with my kids if I sit and worry. Yeah. Was that a big motivator for you?

00:43:41:18 - 00:44:08:11
Unknown
I've kind of. I think so. Like, one of the conflicts we had in our marriage, and I don't talk negatively about my ex, so I'm trying to do this in a very politically correct way. Was vacations. And vacations always seemed to be, back to his family's home, which is his great. And there's it's a huge city and there's a lot to do there, but there's so much more to the world than that town.

00:44:08:14 - 00:44:31:10
Unknown
There's so much world, more to the world than our little community. And a lot of kids don't live here. So when I took my kids on that road trip last year, it was so empowering because we did it, you know, and we stayed overnight and we navigate some huge towns and we, you know, and we drove for days and days in.

00:44:31:13 - 00:44:57:06
Unknown
Which that in itself that's like a whole nother podcast, right, of like driving cross-country with your children and like, all right, I'm doing like, vacations that are restful with children. That doesn't that doesn't happen. That's so true. You know what? It's so funny that you mention that because I've seen those, like, memes or whatever where it says, you know, vacation when you have kids is just parenting in another location.

00:44:57:09 - 00:45:17:22
Unknown
And I was like, you're right. Well, that's like I remember the those my boys born in the summer and Nathan was born in July and, and so, the first summer that's summer that he, he was born. We were already halfway through the summer. And then the second summer, he was just a year. And so, you know, it's hard.

00:45:17:25 - 00:45:47:21
Unknown
I'm these friends listening and thinking. I'm discounting the newborn year because it's a nightmare. But then, trust me, you hit third grade and middle school and you want a newborn again, right? I think you're so right. Like each milestone has, like, its own new challenges. Oh, it is. And each and each kid you raise goes to that milestone so differently.

00:45:47:23 - 00:46:10:09
Unknown
Nathan never had an imaginary friend. We have a special place for one. And James was at dinner. Why did we pick it? Mom? Yeah. Oh, and one so emotional and one's not emotional. I was like, I don't know, like, just when I picture you out, it's not a one size fits all. And that that makes parenting that much more difficult.

00:46:10:09 - 00:46:47:11
Unknown
Right? Yes. Yes. So I, I'm so curious kind of now with some of the insight, like, and some of the awareness that it sounds like you've been able to have, do you find that going through what you did and such, like you said, not only were you having to learn and have the growing pain of single parenting now, now you're single parenting with your own very serious medical diagnosis.

00:46:47:11 - 00:47:13:21
Unknown
So much so, it's like you said, that, you know, your own parents were kind of at that place of what does this mean for our future? So you've got, you know, that happening at the same time you're you're trying to parent and they're likely going through their own milestones and their own like struggles. Was was that difficult to to balance that to, to give attention to what needed the attention.

00:47:13:24 - 00:47:34:10
Unknown
Yeah. And I think, you know, I've read a few things on Facebook lately and I know Facebook is not the Bible, but, you know, the firstborn really teaches you how to grow up, right? You really grow when you're raising that firstborn child. And there's things I did with Nathan that I didn't do with James, Paul. And, and and there's ways I handled things with Nathan that I handled differently with James.

00:47:34:10 - 00:48:01:12
Unknown
Paul not because they're just different kids, but because I know better now. Right? Like I said, the mental health awareness, those sorts of things, and taking care of yourself is so important. I honestly forgot your question. Okay. Yeah. The balance. You're right on it. Back to balance. I was trying to to parent. Well, also, like you said, kind of managing your own wellness and.

00:48:01:12 - 00:48:13:16
Unknown
Yeah. So where was that train going? I have no idea. I even have anybody interrupting me for that train to just go.

00:48:13:18 - 00:48:33:26
Unknown
But, I mean, and so many brain cells to our children. Right? So, yeah, you know, I think it's excusable. That's what I taught myself. At least. So that balance, I think you you just have to find time. And so when the boys, we go to bed and it's harder now that Nathan's older in a middle school on his bedtimes later.

00:48:33:29 - 00:48:54:27
Unknown
But when he was in elementary, he was in bed by eight. And I would honestly take from 8 to 9. And I would just sit and sometimes I would just cry, and sometimes I'd just sit in silence, and sometimes I pray, and sometimes I read my Bible and I would just sit. But I knew, I knew God had a plan and a purpose for everything I was going through.

00:48:54:29 - 00:49:24:12
Unknown
And I couldn't see it. I couldn't see a time. Because when you're going through that dark valley or that battle, you don't see the outcome and the victory that's coming. Right. And I still I'm not sure what that is right now. But I know that there is there is a purpose for that hardship and that it's going to turn out to be good for my kids, for me.

00:49:24:14 - 00:49:46:10
Unknown
For my parents, for others. God's going to use that right to to help someone else. And even if it's just this podcast and that there was a whole reason to go through that, then then great. You know, I always say.

00:49:46:12 - 00:50:13:01
Unknown
What do I always say? It's I'm speaking. I always say, you know, if my marriage was just for that 14 years was only so I can have my boys, then it was worth all the pain afterwards, you know, I love my boys. They they really are, true blessings. Both of them are miracles. They overcame their own hardships with their birth and an early childhood.

00:50:13:03 - 00:50:39:23
Unknown
Things, they still face challenges every day. One more mental health wise. One, physically and, and it's just to be their mom was why I had to go through it. 14 years marriage. It was fine for 12 of it. Yeah, it was a good marriage for 12 of it. And then it just kind of devolved into this, whatever happened.

00:50:39:23 - 00:51:21:00
Unknown
But if it was just for that, if that pain was so, I could still have my boys and raise them in a community that loves them. And in a healthy school where they have every opportunity available to them, then so be it. Then that was worth it. I mean, to be able to kind of have such a big heart, to be able to say that, because I think that so many people would look at what you've you've had to overcome as part of your journey and would go, no, in the world would do that or that, you know, I could see the light at the other side of it, but the fact that, you know,

00:51:21:06 - 00:51:39:24
Unknown
you're it sounds like that heart is so big. Not only are you get into your your student, but you're finding kind of this motivation and willingness to give back to others, to give back to your own kids. And being able to say if that's what it means, if that's what it it took to to do that, then I'm willing to do that.

00:51:39:24 - 00:52:09:28
Unknown
And that's just so amazing to me. And I love your big heart for people. Well thank you, I, I love people and I love telling my story. Because it did suck. I was a sad. Yeah. Again. That's my that's that's my life. That's interesting. Books about life. Yeah. And so then we would we would joke at work early on I was like, now I'm just waiting for my hallmark movie.

00:52:10:00 - 00:52:30:02
Unknown
So if you know any junky looking, 45 to 50 year old men in flannel shirts just then that come riding up to you right on those, like, giant boards, like, oh yeah, I see your movie in my mind. I can see it.

00:52:30:04 - 00:52:43:02
Unknown
I love that. Oh my goodness. Well, I, I think you referred to sharing of your hallmark movie. So hey, let's let's take that production and go.

00:52:43:04 - 00:53:02:17
Unknown
I'm so curious, kind of as we wrap up here, like, if you had a time machine or speaking to anybody who might be going through something that looks a little bit similar to your story, like, what would you if you could go back and hire some sort of something to prepare yourself or just to, to normalize it?

00:53:02:19 - 00:53:32:00
Unknown
What would you say or what would you want? I would say, don't give up. It doesn't even have to be divorce or cancer. Life is hard. Life is hard. Now. Job loss, inflation, various flus that that make things hard. Don't give up. And and don't think you're alone. You know, I think we're a society. 2020 really made us a isolated society.

00:53:32:03 - 00:53:56:07
Unknown
And I don't think we have gotten out of that yet. Where we build fences and we don't know our neighbors and we don't ask for help, and we kind of things on our own. Don't don't do it by yourself. I would have never survived any of this had I tried to do it by myself. I had my parents and, group of core coworkers and friends that helped me through it.

00:53:56:10 - 00:54:22:00
Unknown
My best friend from high school would write me letters every week. Our church, the old lady, the elderly ladies would save up their dollars and buys KFC gift cards just so we could go out to lunch and have normal out to eat. Just don't go through this alone there. There's people going through those situations, maybe not exactly the same, but they know how you feel.

00:54:22:00 - 00:54:55:08
Unknown
They know how it feels to lose a child. They know how it feels to, lose a spouse, to lose your health. There's people out there, and I think there's more and more resources for that. So I would just tell people, don't give up and don't do it alone. Yeah. And that's such a quick reminder because you're absolutely right that, you know, for whatever reason, and I have struggled multiple times that as parents, we do get really good at kind of shrinking inside.

00:54:55:10 - 00:55:18:19
Unknown
Yeah, it can go really lonely and it can be really difficult. You know, there's that whole idea, that narrative that so many people have of, of asking for help, like you said, is been some sort of a weakness or some sort of flaw with yourself because you couldn't you couldn't do it. What? You know, why, why not? And that that can just really compound that isolation, that loneliness and that it is it is hard.

00:55:18:19 - 00:55:43:21
Unknown
And we need more people speaking out and normalizing the hardness because, goodness, it is not all sunshine and rainbows. And just like this is exactly how I picture. See you on your life plan. We're perfectly. Yeah, right. I mean, if it were that way, I wouldn't have a job. So that's that is true. That's true. We all need to be a mess.

00:55:43:21 - 00:55:48:12
Unknown
So you can employ.

00:55:48:14 - 00:56:04:01
Unknown
I, I say honestly, like, I would much rather be out of a job because we're all, like, thriving and healthy and like our mental health is great. I would put me out of a job. Please.

00:56:04:03 - 00:56:28:24
Unknown
Go back to the thing. That's how you should have your career. That would be your career. I think I, I gotta go back to and work for that one. That's right. Well, I love that. So before we close out, is there any I know you shared an awesome research that sounds like was super helpful on your journey, or are there any other researchers out there that you know of that might be useful to any of our listeners?

00:56:28:27 - 00:56:52:19
Unknown
So I think, a lot of times local churches and it may not even be the problem is, is like if you are married and go to a church and then you split up, then you're kind of 5050. But a lot of other churches have resources for divorce care and, and I do think seeing is seeing a therapist similar to yourself or a family therapist for your kids.

00:56:52:21 - 00:57:11:17
Unknown
Is very important to those beginning stages. We do not have that as an option. Like I said, we're very, lacking here, but I really think that would have been helpful. I even looked for divorce care. But the nearest one was like, in Lakewood. And again, it was 2020, so everything was pretty locked down in Lakewood, six hours away from us.

00:57:11:17 - 00:57:41:20
Unknown
Right. So, and then if you do find yourself in a situation with cancer, then colleges office has resources, social resources, transportation resources, housing help, medical help. You know, I found myself in a situation this last year where I couldn't pay my medical bills and mentioned it to the social worker, and she was able to give me an A program, to get me through this next, you know, just sometimes you just get stuck in a transition and you just need that little bit of help, right?

00:57:41:20 - 00:58:04:27
Unknown
To get us to the next step. But you, it's hard and it's humbling to ask for help. And I don't think people do that naturally, ask for help. But that would be my encouragement is to find if you find yourself in any of those resources, try to find some groups support groups just so you can get with people that have been through those moments.

00:58:04:27 - 00:58:31:02
Unknown
Because unless you've been through divorce or been through cancer, it's really, really hard to to find those same feelings, you know? Yeah. And so that would be my encouragement. For other people. Well, awesome. Okay. So this is kind of what mine looks like, how I guess. Oh, good. Did you buy duty salt and pepper, grandma I did, I added that in.

00:58:31:03 - 00:58:50:06
Unknown
Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Go for it I did I it, I added it when I, when I had it kind of boiling is that's when I did make it. Yep. That's how I do it too. Yes. Well I'm so excited to get us to try and take some of those veggies into the kiddos. I mean, I feel like that's kind of what we do as parents.

00:58:50:08 - 00:58:56:18
Unknown
We find this little ways to do so. I think.

00:58:56:21 - 00:59:13:13
Unknown
I'm like, this is not a very healthy meal, but we sure do like it. Hey. And that sometimes we just got to put food on the table and hey, this that sounds like yummy goodness. Oh, it's going to work.

00:59:13:16 - 00:59:42:19
Unknown
Well, thank you so much, Jamie, for being willing to chat with us to share your story. I know that, sharing and being real is not something that is readily done by so many folks that I think it is so super important. So I really thank you for your willingness to do it, and your willingness to even share a recipe with us so that folks can add this to their repertoire, because, again, parents often times are like, I'm so over kind of the same, right?

00:59:42:22 - 01:00:04:13
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every single meal. Yeah. Well, thank you again for the invite. I feel really honored that you asked me. Yes, absolutely. And thank you so much to our listeners. Thanks for joining us today. And hopefully you enjoy this mac and cheese just as much as my family is about to as well. And we'll talk to you later.

01:00:04:15 - 01:00:29:20
Unknown
If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website found in the show notes.

01:00:29:23 - 01:00:51:20
Unknown
And that goes for today's recipe, social media support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes, so make sure to check them out and make sure to follow, like, share, subscribe, and stay up to date on all things the real Family Eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food.

01:00:51:23 - 01:00:52:22
Unknown
Enjoy your eats!