Failing Motherhood Myths + Portabella Pizza | Real Parents, Real Struggles, & Recipe Sharing

Andrea Knox, LMFT, mom of 2 and author of You'll Bounce Right Back: The Motherhood Myths That Fail Us and the Tools We Need Instead, talks with Reesa, our resident couples therapist for parents, about their real parenting struggles. She is sharing navigating parenting challenges, the parent support and resources they found along the way, and parenting tips. While they chat they are recipe sharing balancing parenting and family meals. Andrea talks about the myths that failed her transition into parenthood and shares her Portobello Pizza recipe. 

Have you tried the recipe or a challenge you've tackled? We'd love to hear from you in the comments!

Find her on:

Website: www.andreasknox.com 
Insta: @andrea.sumara.knox
Book: https://a.co/d/72YvyCR

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Portobello Pizzas 

INGREDIENTS:

6 Large Portobello Mushroom Caps

1 jar Marinara sauce

Italian Seasoning (optional)

1 8oz Package Shredded Mozzarella Cheese

Chopped Fresh Basil

Pizza Toppings of Choice

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F.  Line a rimmed baking sheet with parchment paper (rimmed is important because the mushrooms release juices during cooking)

2. Prepare mushroom caps by removing/discarding stems, rinsing and patting dry (paper towels or a dark towel recommended because the mushrooms can stain light towels)

3. Place mushroom caps gill side up on baking sheet and spoon on a thin layer of marinara sauce onto each cap. Spread sauce with back of spoon. Sprinkle with Italian Seasoning for added flavor (optional).

4. Sprinkle toppings evenly across mushroom caps. Cover each mushroom with a generous layer of shredded mozzarella cheese. Garnish with fresh basil.

5. Bake for 10-15 minutes, until cheese is melted and beginning to brown, and mushrooms are tender when pierced with a fork.

6. Serve with a side salad and enjoy!

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If you or your loved one is struggling with any of the topics discussed, here are some resources:

Postpartum Support International:

https://www.postpartum.net/

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Disclaimer:

The content provided on this podcast channel is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice or treatment nor supplements professional treatment. The views and opinions expressed by the host(s) and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the

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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist 104709. Reesa is a couples counselor for parents providing therapy in person in Murrieta, CA and virtual couples therapy in California. Reesa, also, hosts couples workshops and parenting workshops worldwide.

Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe - https://linktr.ee/EmbraceRenewalTherapy

For the video version of this episode find us on www.youtube.com/@TheRealFamilyEats

If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:

www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.

Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988

Go to your local hospital or call 911

Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:02:05
Speaker 3
I really internalize that and.

00:00:02:05 - 00:00:10:18
Speaker 4
Just thinking like, what's wrong with me that I'm not able to soothe my child and like, I'm just not I'm not a good mother. I'm not doing this right. I don't want to do this anymore.

00:00:18:28 - 00:00:37:28
Speaker 2
Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining me. My name is Reesa and I'm your host. We are talking to real families about real stories. Here on The Real Family Eats, where we've got food for thought and thoughtful food. So let's eat.

00:00:46:16 - 00:01:03:19
Speaker 3
Hey, everyone. So my guest today is the lovely Andrea. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome. I appreciate you being here and I'm so excited to hear about your recipe as well as your story. Before we do that, though, for anybody who doesn't know you, can you introduce yourself for us? Sure.

00:01:04:03 - 00:01:23:14
Speaker 4
I'm Andrea Knox. I'm a mom of two. My kids are eight and 11. I'm also a marriage and family therapist. Kind of on hiatus right now. I'm, an intermittent stay at home mom and also an author. And. Yeah. That's me.

00:01:23:17 - 00:01:36:06
Speaker 3
Wonderful. So this is actually a perfect time for our shameless plug, which I have. I'll do the a little visual here for you, but, for anybody who is, looking for your services to practice, you're in California, correct?

00:01:36:08 - 00:01:41:25
Speaker 4
Yes. Not. I'm not currently seeing clients, so I'm mainly in, like, an author and educator role right now.

00:01:41:26 - 00:01:54:19
Speaker 3
Okay. So tell us a little bit about, the books as well as anything else that you offer. Any socials? Where can people find find you. Okay. Yeah. So this is the book.

00:01:54:19 - 00:02:20:16
Speaker 4
You'll bounce right back. So the title is The Motherhood Myths that Fail Us and the Tools we need instead. It's a book about, preparing expectant moms for motherhood and also to help, moms in the first year of parenthood adjust to parenthood. It's filled with, skills and tools. There's a ton of research, and it's basically talking about what is parenthood really like?

00:02:20:19 - 00:02:28:04
Speaker 4
Okay. And how can you get support for yourself and get prepared in a way that is authentic to you? I love that.

00:02:28:11 - 00:02:30:09
Speaker 3
So where can people find your book.

00:02:30:11 - 00:02:42:16
Speaker 4
It's on Amazon and Barnes Noble. Like most of the online places you find books, it's also in, a physical bookstore in San Diego called Camino Books.

00:02:42:19 - 00:02:51:05
Speaker 3
Wonderful. That's so exciting. Any social medias that people can follow your website that they can see kind of some of the services or any of that? Sure.

00:02:51:08 - 00:03:00:18
Speaker 4
My website is Andrea S knox.com and my, Instagram is Andrea Su, Mara Knox, Andrea dotson Mara dot Knox.

00:03:00:20 - 00:03:20:00
Speaker 3
Perfect. And as usual, we'll have all of those like to our show notes. And make sure to check that out if it resonates with you. All right. So I'm really excited. I have never had this particular recipe. And so tell me what you're teaching me today and why you chose this one. All right, so, we're making portobello pizzas.

00:03:20:02 - 00:03:30:21
Speaker 4
It's every time my husband and I sit down and eat this meal, we're like, oh, this is just, like, so nourishing and hearty. Okay? And so. And it's it's pretty.

00:03:30:23 - 00:03:31:17
Speaker 3
So it's not.

00:03:31:17 - 00:03:49:16
Speaker 4
That hard to make. It looks appealing. It feels good when you eat it. And, it's something I can eat because, I have, like, a year and a half after my daughter was born, who's my youngest, I developed a metabolic disorder, and I, don't regulate insulin correctly.

00:03:49:18 - 00:03:50:07
Speaker 3
Okay, so.

00:03:50:07 - 00:03:57:07
Speaker 4
I have to eat a very low carb diet, like, basically a keto diet. Not for, like, hot beach bod or anything, just for, like, for survival.

00:03:57:14 - 00:03:59:29
Speaker 3
For survival. So, it eliminates.

00:03:59:29 - 00:04:18:12
Speaker 4
Like, traditional pizza crust and bread and pasta and all the, like, delicious things in life. Yeah. So I have found some recipes that are, alternatives to carbs that are also, like, really yummy. And my husband will eat. And so it just fulfills a lot of needs for our family.

00:04:18:12 - 00:04:28:12
Speaker 3
Wonderful. And I know that you had kind of a, a way that you've modified it to have the kiddos involved, too. If it's not something that they will eat necessarily.

00:04:28:15 - 00:04:37:18
Speaker 4
Yeah, they will not eat it. I think, every time we make this, my daughter looked over and was like, that's disgusting. So my, my yeah.

00:04:37:18 - 00:04:40:17
Speaker 3
My sugar that way. Yeah. My kids are picky eaters.

00:04:40:17 - 00:05:05:26
Speaker 4
So we're like I will just disclose. Like, I'd really love if we all sat down to one family meal, but that's not our reality. Like, my kids get food and I eat my weird diet and my husband, like, is along on the journey. So, yeah, my kids definitely don't eat there. So at the same time that we make this, we usually make pizza with, just like, pre-made dough from Trader Joe's or something.

00:05:06:00 - 00:05:16:27
Speaker 4
And, put the same sauce in the same cheese and cook it at the same time. So we're kind of resembling the same. Yeah, the same time. And we can kind of like, knock it all out at once.

00:05:16:32 - 00:05:35:16
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And it sounds like in that way you're able to kind of meet multiple needs, multiple dietary needs as well. But still kind of have that kind of inclusivity and togetherness. Yeah. Which is really neat. I love that idea. Okay. So tell me kind of the basic steps and I'll get go on while we chat.

00:05:35:16 - 00:05:56:22
Speaker 4
Okay. So, you already prepared the mushrooms. So typically you would want to rinse the mushrooms, have them dry. I suggested using like a dark towel or paper towels because I have stained a bunch of my white house with these mushrooms. And then you, put them, face up to the gills. Up. You spread a thin layer of sauce on.

00:05:56:22 - 00:06:13:06
Speaker 4
They release quite a bit of juices when you cook them. So you don't want to put too much sauce. Otherwise it's going to get, like, kind of juice, you see. Okay. So just like you would regular pizza as if this is the crust, put a thin layer of sauce on. I add Italian seasoning just to spice up the sauce a little bit.

00:06:13:08 - 00:06:29:16
Speaker 4
And then, you put your toppings on and then the cheese, and then, I typically garnish with some, basil on top. Okay. My husband and I have a debate about if the toppings go under the cheese or on top, and so he'll be very excited.

00:06:29:18 - 00:06:31:07
Speaker 3
If he listens to this.

00:06:31:10 - 00:06:33:27
Speaker 4
That I'm saying to put them under the cheese.

00:06:33:27 - 00:06:40:27
Speaker 3
Because they care. Is that his preference or preference? I love it. So, because they he's worried.

00:06:40:27 - 00:06:55:20
Speaker 4
That they will like, slide off as they cook. Okay. Which no, he's not wrong. So, but I feel like they're more flavorful on the outside. So today we're putting them under the cheese. Okay. Don't slide and, Yeah. Then you bake them and that's pretty much it.

00:06:55:23 - 00:07:14:16
Speaker 3
I love it. And I also heard you say in there he's not wrong which I'm sure it's, you know a little a little pro for him to shout out okay so I can get this going. And while I do that I'd love to hear more about your story. And it sounds like it's very much maybe kind of a catalyst for you writing your book.

00:07:14:16 - 00:07:16:01
Speaker 3
Is that a fair statement?

00:07:16:01 - 00:07:17:08
Speaker 4
Is that is a fair statement? Yeah.

00:07:17:08 - 00:07:29:20
Speaker 3
Okay. So talk to me a little bit about because it sounds like some of your journey involves kind of expectation versus reality, which I think is a very real thing when we're talking about parent.

00:07:29:25 - 00:07:30:29
Speaker 4
Yes, completely.

00:07:30:30 - 00:07:39:08
Speaker 3
So walk me through what kind of where does your journey start and kind of in that sense, some of the challenges that you had to overcome, it sounds like.

00:07:39:09 - 00:07:43:29
Speaker 4
Okay. Yeah. So when I, became a parent.

00:07:45:07 - 00:08:03:20
Speaker 4
I was prepared for, like, the glossy version of Parenthood, like, it's going to be, the happiest time of my life. It's going to all come naturally. My body will bounce right back. It's going to be like. It's right. Yeah. And, and we worked hard to have a baby. And I think that put even more pressure on that.

00:08:03:22 - 00:08:14:28
Speaker 4
To expect that this was like a really, like seamless and, just positive transition. So when,

00:08:14:28 - 00:08:20:26
Speaker 4
when I had my first child, the transition of parenthood was so much harder than I expected.

00:08:20:26 - 00:08:44:11
Speaker 4
Okay. And I was just shocked. I was, I was shocked by the reality of what parenthood was. And, also like, really struggled with the impact of, sleep disruption and the constancy of f parenthood and just how much my life felt like it was just completely different.

00:08:44:13 - 00:09:03:32
Speaker 4
Yeah. So, I, I developed postpartum depression, anxiety, which I had some biological predisposition for. But I think really the catalyst for that was just how shocking it was and how much my expectations were so much different from what the reality was. Yeah.

00:09:04:00 - 00:09:27:32
Speaker 3
So I'm super curious for you, you know, and I know everybody's journey is a little bit different, but some of your expectations going into it. Was there a particular, source that you kind of built some of those expectations for that kind of wasn't, wasn't true in that sense. Like where were your where where were you getting kind of your narrative in that sense?

00:09:27:32 - 00:09:56:12
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's a good question. I think so. My, my family, my mom and my sister had kind of unique parenting experiences. So I felt like and they had a really hard time. So, okay, I felt like I that wasn't really an accurate source for me because I thought my experience might be different. So I was kind of just like grabbing it from the air, you know, like, what are the messages that society is providing?

00:09:56:15 - 00:10:21:31
Speaker 4
What am I seeing? Not that I like was really attached to media, but, you know, as you're like passing the magazine rack or like watching TV, there's a, there's a portrayal of motherhood that it's like that. It's so natural and beautiful and blissful. Yeah. So, so I think that that's kind of where it came from is just like from society and culture and media around me.

00:10:22:01 - 00:10:42:09
Speaker 3
And I think that's so important because that's where a lot of us get our information. You know, sometimes you might have even other sources, other people that are close to you that are saying, oh, this was my experience. And so they kind of so that's going to be it. And we accept that as like gospel, almost like, okay, so this is this is what I'm expecting.

00:10:42:09 - 00:10:56:06
Speaker 3
And so when you it sounds like kind of enter into that decision of, you know, trying to bring a kiddo, you know, into your family, it sounds like you're kind of going into it with like, oh yeah, I'm signing up for this. This is what I'm signing. Yeah.

00:10:56:06 - 00:10:57:28
Speaker 4
For this picture right here.

00:10:57:32 - 00:11:09:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. This thing I saw on TV, you know, where everyone's happy. There's no yelling. Yeah, right. You know. That's right. That's what I signed up for. Yes. Yeah. And I'll, I'll also say.

00:11:09:18 - 00:11:33:17
Speaker 4
Like we're I, I didn't have a lot of people around me, my family excluded, but who were, who were being honest about like, it's amazing, but also it's really hard, you know, and like, this is what I'm struggling with. So I, I just feel like that's kind of a cultural norm to not be, so forthcoming. Like, there's a lot of stigma around talking about the struggle.

00:11:33:20 - 00:11:54:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. What? So, I mean, I have my ideas, which is the whole reason for that. But I mean, in in your experience, why do you think that what is why is it so taboo? And that most people's instinct is to then kind of continue this facade.

00:11:54:05 - 00:12:19:03
Speaker 4
Oh what a question. I think there's a lot of reasons. So I think one is like the the cultural idea of motherhood, like it's the, it's the pinnacle or parenthood. But I think especially for mothers, like it's the pinnacle of femininity. Right. It's like the thing to do. Yeah. And even though that's not true for everybody, but it I think it's portrayed that way.

00:12:19:03 - 00:12:44:31
Speaker 4
It's like the ultimate expression of femininity to be a mother. And, and it's, it's, so to even though, like, I think kind of gender, roles and, and concepts are kind of like shifting now. And I think we're still pretty invested in that idea. And that's been around for so long. It's been since like difficult times.

00:12:45:02 - 00:13:11:14
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we're just not quite letting it go, so to, to speak out against that and to be in America where we're so individualistic and, do everything ourselves. And now there's social media that makes everything look perfect. Yeah. And effortless. So like, there's, it's from all these different angles that there would be, sort of an agreement of silence around that.

00:13:11:16 - 00:13:32:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think that agreement, like you mentioned, is something that maybe people aren't necessarily aware of until it's happening and then it's, you know, it becomes even more isolating because no one else is talking about it. So, I shouldn't you know, I feel like so many of us are kind of in this habit of don't rock the boat.

00:13:32:09 - 00:13:32:31
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:13:33:05 - 00:13:36:26
Speaker 3
And so, yeah, to then be the one person that speaking out like that's.

00:13:36:26 - 00:13:37:31
Speaker 4
Scary.

00:13:38:00 - 00:13:54:02
Speaker 3
To kind of break that norms. And so I can absolutely appreciate where you said it's just almost even subconsciously we're continuing on this this idea, this narrative. And I'm tired of it. So to me.

00:13:54:05 - 00:13:55:27
Speaker 4
Know I feel you on that.

00:13:55:30 - 00:13:56:25
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:13:56:30 - 00:14:12:24
Speaker 4
It's time. It's time to speak up. Even if some of the silence is like good natured, you know, like like I don't want to, like, impose my experience on you as your as your mother or your aunt or whoever, you know, like, it's still. I don't think it's helpful.

00:14:12:31 - 00:14:32:31
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think that's a good point because I have heard from people who. I don't want to scare you. You know, again, it's not it's not ill intention. Yeah. But like you said, it just it it does kind of maybe have other consequences that we don't quite realize from it. So I think that's a great point.

00:14:33:00 - 00:14:59:14
Speaker 3
I'm super curious for you. You had mentioned kind of, working with and struggling with some of the postpartum. And so again, I know everybody is kind of presentation looks a little bit different. Would you be willing to kind of share a little bit of some of the symptoms that you saw for yourself? As far as you know, if someone is maybe questioning for themselves, like, is this should I be concerned, should I, you know, maybe get some help?

00:14:59:14 - 00:15:01:07
Speaker 3
Like, what does that look like for you?

00:15:01:08 - 00:15:20:28
Speaker 4
For me? Yeah. And that is a good point, that it doesn't look the same for everybody. But, I felt I think, like for the depression piece, I felt sad. I felt, a lot of shame. I felt like, like low self-esteem around parenthood.

00:15:21:00 - 00:15:22:03
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:15:22:06 - 00:15:37:21
Speaker 4
And I just, I felt like I was dragging. I was just, like, dragging in in a fog. In terms of the anxiety, I felt like, I was really irritable.

00:15:37:24 - 00:15:38:21
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:15:38:24 - 00:16:09:05
Speaker 4
I was, I had a hard time figuring out, like, how to leave the house because my, my first child was, privacy, and he would just cry, like, for, like, 45 minutes. Well, and and I would never know when it would happen, and there would be a reason why, like, his diaper would have been changed. He would have, like, his temperature would be regulated, would have been fed, but he just, he just had trouble regulating himself sometimes.

00:16:09:05 - 00:16:16:21
Speaker 4
So I would be so fearful that one of those things would happen. That it would just feel like paralyzing to leave the house.

00:16:16:23 - 00:16:17:06
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:16:17:06 - 00:16:45:21
Speaker 4
And when I, I went to a baby in yoga class, when, after I first had him, and, I, I mentioned the story in my book, too, but, like, all that, it would be like doing yoga and then like, at the at the end of the class, I feel like down to whisper and like, all the babies would be getting calm and then we do like a meditation and my baby would be the only one crying.

00:16:45:29 - 00:16:48:10
Speaker 4
So, I mean.

00:16:48:13 - 00:16:51:20
Speaker 3
That's that's the whole way. So

00:16:51:20 - 00:16:54:11
Speaker 3
and so I really internalize that and.

00:16:54:11 - 00:17:02:24
Speaker 4
Just thinking like, what's wrong with me that I'm not able to soothe my child and like, I'm just not I'm not a good mother. I'm not doing this right. I don't want to do this anymore.

00:17:02:24 - 00:17:14:22
Speaker 4
Yeah. So it just like, I think this thoughts would kind of like cascade into a really bad place instead of instead of realizing like, hey, my baby's just having trouble regulating himself.

00:17:14:22 - 00:17:29:14
Speaker 4
Like, I'm doing a great job. It's just that he's having a hard time. So, yeah. So my thoughts go dark. I was sad, I was like, tearful, like it was. It was a pretty wide spectrum of experiences.

00:17:29:17 - 00:17:48:20
Speaker 3
And I imagine that doesn't make it, you know, super easy. You're in an environment where literally you've got people to compare yourself to right next to it. And like you said, if there, you know, I'll see it. And here's here's your baby who's really struggling in that moment to be able to kind of on on sleep deprived brain.

00:17:48:20 - 00:18:12:30
Speaker 3
So your brain isn't at its best just in general. Right? Right. Because of the environmental circumstances and just I mean, that's kind of a thing. And then to kind of add, like you said, I mean, in order to kind of reframe that and to be able to access that logic of, hey, it's not you, it's this is just a particular growing pain that you guys are having to work through together.

00:18:12:30 - 00:18:13:09
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:18:13:13 - 00:18:20:22
Speaker 3
You know, it can be really easy for us to, like you said, kind of get stuck into. Well, they're able to do it, so it must be a myth.

00:18:20:28 - 00:18:21:31
Speaker 4
Yes, exactly.

00:18:21:31 - 00:18:27:04
Speaker 3
Must be some sort of deficit. And that's. Oh, gosh, that's such a lonely headspace to be.

00:18:27:04 - 00:18:40:00
Speaker 4
Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Very isolating. Feels like I'm the only one who's not able to to do this naturally or. Well, yeah. Yeah. And that's like more depression inducing, right.

00:18:40:02 - 00:18:44:22
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. It's like it's a cycle. Yeah. That's hard to get out of.

00:18:44:22 - 00:18:59:30
Speaker 4
Yes. In fact there's research to, to support that. Like when you are hard on yourself about having bad thoughts about parenthood, that it's that it is more likely to lead to depression instead of having like, self-compassion.

00:19:00:02 - 00:19:27:29
Speaker 3
Yeah. And that's just a that's a really stinky fact. Yeah. Like you said, I mean, just the fact that self-compassion just becomes further and further away. Yeah. That's so hard. Yeah. Especially when you're doing something like Parenthood, where I mean, I don't know about your experience, but it takes a very high degree of self-compassion when you're when you're in it and you're doing the whole parenting thing.

00:19:27:29 - 00:19:28:28
Speaker 3
Yes.

00:19:28:31 - 00:19:32:23
Speaker 4
Absolutely. Yeah. And and you may not have.

00:19:32:31 - 00:19:34:15
Speaker 3
Cultivated that skill.

00:19:34:15 - 00:19:52:08
Speaker 4
Before parenthood, or you may not know that that's what you're supposed to do, or that, you know, like, it's okay to have these thoughts. So I think that's why it's so important to be, vocal about parenting experiences that are hard. So people know.

00:19:52:12 - 00:20:11:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, okay, so this is, you know, your, your struggles. I went through postpartum, walk me through kind of the rest. How does how did this kind of unfold for you? What are some other things that you had to kind of, figure out and navigate?

00:20:11:12 - 00:20:33:12
Speaker 4
Well, I, I saw a therapist. It was, it was like, really hard. I don't know if you can relate to this, but being a therapist and needing to see a therapist, like, that's that's fine. But I still have this, this concept of, like, I am the one who provides for other people and like, I shouldn't be having this experience, but I did.

00:20:33:12 - 00:20:36:04
Speaker 4
It was very helpful. And.

00:20:36:07 - 00:20:47:14
Speaker 3
Of course it was. That's way, you know, I think that's why they say we make the experience too. Yeah, definitely. Or or similar in that way. Yeah. Yeah. And I also I needed support.

00:20:47:14 - 00:21:02:07
Speaker 4
I had lined up zero support. Okay. So I needed somebody to give me breaks and to help me. So I finally reached out for that, and, and things got a lot better. So, yeah.

00:21:02:08 - 00:21:12:21
Speaker 3
So you mentioned kind of not having lined up support, is that, by nature, are you tell me a little bit about kind of that support piece, if you would. Yeah.

00:21:12:21 - 00:21:33:09
Speaker 4
I just thought I could do it all on my own, you know. And I was like, we did the classes, we did baby CPR. We set up the nursery, we got all the gear and, you know, I just thought we would be fine. Like, I was a very independent person. My husband also is. We were just like, we got this.

00:21:33:10 - 00:21:37:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, like, why would we need help? I was I almost took.

00:21:37:19 - 00:21:49:16
Speaker 4
When, when people would ask me like a medical provider, like, do you have support after the baby? You know, it's like a routine question, right? And I'd be like, do they think I can't handle this? You know, like, I got this.

00:21:49:19 - 00:21:51:13
Speaker 3
So it's like a point of pride. It sounds.

00:21:51:13 - 00:22:20:01
Speaker 4
Like. Right. Like, yeah. And also just a complete not knowing of what what was like what I would need and what was reality. So, like, of course, being the only one watching a baby 24 hours a day with, like, you know, I had my spouse, but, you know, he had to go back to work. And so, like, him being, like, inundated with navy, like when he came home, like, take the baby.

00:22:20:01 - 00:22:21:01
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:22:21:04 - 00:22:23:10
Speaker 3
It just that wasn't it. There wasn't enough.

00:22:23:14 - 00:22:39:20
Speaker 4
Support for us, just the two of us. So, Yeah. So I hadn't asked anybody. I hadn't hired anybody. So, Yeah. So then I was like, okay, I need I really need help. So, so that's that's when I did it after the fact.

00:22:39:24 - 00:22:52:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Was there a particular moment for you that was that. Kind of willingness to change that mindset from a, I don't need the help to. Yeah I think I do.

00:22:52:22 - 00:22:55:12
Speaker 4
There was actually like a very clear moment.

00:22:55:12 - 00:22:58:00
Speaker 3
Because my.

00:22:58:03 - 00:23:19:02
Speaker 4
My pediatrician for my son, was like just so wonderful in asking like very indirectly, you know, as he's checking my baby, like, and how are you doing? You know, and, and I was like, oh, I'm okay. You know, I have my down days. And he's like, nowadays, what are those? You know, what does that look like?

00:23:19:04 - 00:23:20:01
Speaker 4
So he he.

00:23:20:01 - 00:23:21:06
Speaker 3
Told me, he's like.

00:23:21:07 - 00:23:39:24
Speaker 4
You're spending too much time with the baby. Like you need a wife support for you. Yeah. So that was the first person to tell me directly, like, oh, like that's that's okay. To need support and, like, you could really use it. Yeah. So I literally had a person tell me, like.

00:23:39:32 - 00:23:44:11
Speaker 3
You need this. So I was like, oh, I need this. Okay. This is okay.

00:23:44:11 - 00:23:59:15
Speaker 4
All right. I yeah, I guess like now I have the permission. Not that I, I don't really like saying like it had to come from another person, but but it did give me permission to say like, okay, this is something that I need and I can I can get that for myself.

00:23:59:18 - 00:24:22:01
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I, I love that you just use that word because I was just going to ask, was it did it feel like permission to be able to to reach out. And it sounds like, you know, you kind of preemptively. Yeah. That that's kind of where you were at. Yeah. And, you know, I hear you saying that, you know, not that we need somebody else's permission to do it, but sometimes I can actually appreciate where when you're in that mindset, it's really hard.

00:24:22:01 - 00:24:39:08
Speaker 3
Like you said, the self-compassion thing. Go back to that to give yourself that permission yourself, that it might not be something you can access in those moments. And so sometimes it does take that external person thing. It'll be okay if you ask for help. It doesn't make you any less than.

00:24:39:08 - 00:24:39:26
Speaker 4
Yes.

00:24:39:26 - 00:24:53:20
Speaker 3
Or mean that you're a failure in some way, shape or form because you're asking for help. Because, again, normal live right guys like normal life getting the help because that's totally okay. And that's actually, well needed.

00:24:53:20 - 00:24:55:27
Speaker 4
Yes. Yes. Exactly.

00:24:55:27 - 00:25:12:01
Speaker 3
Yeah. So okay. So he tells you let's get you some help. Was it was that an immediate shift that I mean, what was your journey kind of what did that help look like for you in order to to find some of that relief?

00:25:12:04 - 00:25:37:31
Speaker 4
I so initially I was I turned to my husband and, and he was like, I'm not sure that I, that I really can, like, provide all the help that you need. Like, we, you know, like, I think maybe we need to go outside of ourselves. So, I had a friend who said, I know a nanny who can probably help you, and I called her and she was available, so it was like, oh, wow.

00:25:37:32 - 00:25:46:22
Speaker 4
It was amazing. Yeah. And that's not going to be like, you know, things of the case for everybody that that a resource so magically appear.

00:25:46:22 - 00:25:47:07
Speaker 3
Yes.

00:25:47:07 - 00:26:12:17
Speaker 4
But but I think it also it also speaks to like when I had the courage to tell somebody else who was another mom what I was going through, she shared, like, oh, yes, of course. And I also struggled and and here's somebody I know. So it was kind of kind of like a powerful community moment of like, you know, when we when we share, honestly, we might get, you know, some resources shared back with us.

00:26:12:19 - 00:26:26:25
Speaker 3
Yeah. Did that I mean, that sounds like a really hard step to then go to another parent and open yourself up in such a vulnerable way. It was

00:26:26:28 - 00:26:48:07
Speaker 4
But I feel like, most, most times that I did that, and it got easier and easier and I just like, started sharing more and more. It was just like a MeToo moment, like, oh, yeah, I had a hard time with that, too. And it was very rare that somebody was just like, wow, you're really struggling.

00:26:48:07 - 00:26:49:29
Speaker 4
You know, like, yeah.

00:26:49:32 - 00:26:57:28
Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah. So maybe not getting as much of the judgment as we were, like as you were kind of offering to yourself. Yeah.

00:26:57:29 - 00:27:14:23
Speaker 4
That yes, I was, I was, you know, making up the thoughts for all the people around me. Like, for example, in that baby yoga class, I was I was perceiving that everybody was like, you know, judging me for not being able to see my baby, but I don't. That's probably not what they were thinking.

00:27:14:23 - 00:27:31:07
Speaker 3
Right? Yeah. And I think that's such a great reminder because. Absolutely. Are there going to be people out there who are judging? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, you get those people like on the airplane, for example. I feel like that that to me, I hear that I've seen it where, you know, you're kind of like, quiet your baby.

00:27:31:07 - 00:27:50:02
Speaker 3
And it's like, I'm doing everything I can. Trust me. I want my baby to be quiet, too. So, you know, there are definitely those people, but in your general circle that if that is their response, perhaps they ought to be outside of your circle instead of inside. Because, like you said, that you need that band around you.

00:27:50:02 - 00:28:01:09
Speaker 3
And I'm not someone who's pushing you down and and issuing that judgment, because you already weren't good enough judging ourself. We don't need other people doing it. Yeah.

00:28:01:12 - 00:28:02:28
Speaker 4
Yes. Completely. Yeah.

00:28:03:02 - 00:28:23:19
Speaker 3
So, I'm so glad that it sounds like you were able to kind of start finding some of that support. As you were going through some of that, did, did that kind of shift things in, in what way? So you started getting some of that support. How did the journey look like kind of through that after that?

00:28:23:27 - 00:28:47:01
Speaker 4
Yeah. I think I think just talking about it shifted something in me. Like I had let down that barrier of trying to hold it all together as if I, because if you looked at me, in my early parenthood days, like, I would have looked tired, but you would have assumed everything was fine unless you, like, ventured into my bedroom and found me crying, you know?

00:28:47:09 - 00:29:02:19
Speaker 4
Okay, so. So I think it was like, it was a relief to let up that facade to, like, let people in and let them know, like, this is really hard. And, also, I got some breaks so I could, like, have my own thoughts and,

00:29:02:22 - 00:29:03:16
Speaker 3
Do something.

00:29:03:21 - 00:29:21:19
Speaker 4
Even if it's just going to target, you know, like on my own. And then eventually I was able to go back to work and that for me, that was, for me, that was, like it, it fed me to be able to sort of like, make it make a contribution into the greater world again.

00:29:21:26 - 00:29:23:18
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:29:23:20 - 00:29:46:09
Speaker 4
And yeah, I just I started realizing, like, okay, this isn't just me that's experiencing this. You know, some of these thoughts are just kind of spiraling, and I just kind of like, got back on track. So it took time. But, but I did feel like a huge sense of relief almost immediately when I started talking and when I got more support.

00:29:46:12 - 00:29:55:27
Speaker 3
Yeah, I heard you mentioned there that if people were to look at you on the outside, they wouldn't necessarily know. Was that a conscious decision that you made?

00:29:55:30 - 00:29:57:31
Speaker 4
I think that's just how I operated.

00:29:58:00 - 00:29:59:24
Speaker 3
You know, in general even before.

00:29:59:27 - 00:30:20:31
Speaker 4
Yeah, I think that's just how I operated. But I will say like the so after after I recovered from this experience, I devoted my marriage and family therapy practice to supporting moms and families. And I would I would see a lot of that, like moms coming in with that who look like they're, you know, they're doing fine and they've got it all together.

00:30:20:31 - 00:30:31:13
Speaker 4
And if I pass them on the street, I think like they're doing fine. But then they, they, you know, without their true experience and they're really struggling. So I think it's kind of a.

00:30:33:03 - 00:30:52:05
Speaker 4
I don't know if it, it may tie in with kind of like this cohort of parenthood where we're needing to make it all look like, it's like it's, you know, picture perfect, like it's on. I don't I didn't even really used, you know, social media at the time, but still it feels like there's a pressure to like make it all look good.

00:30:52:07 - 00:31:12:23
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And could you say more about maybe the importance of that reminder that even though, like you said, walking down the street, these people, you know, you're like, oh you got it together. No need to necessarily check in with those. Yeah. Can you say more about that. Because I think that's really important. Yeah.

00:31:12:23 - 00:31:16:30
Speaker 4
I think just as much as we make up other people's thoughts.

00:31:17:00 - 00:31:17:06
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:31:17:06 - 00:31:33:03
Speaker 4
Who are making it their experiences and how they're doing. And and we have to ask, we have to check in and ask to really know what is happening for them. Yeah. And create a space for an honest answer to like, you know, not like a leading question, like you're doing fine. Right? You know. Yeah.

00:31:33:06 - 00:31:53:22
Speaker 3
That's a really great point. So could you say more about for for anyone who might be one into to be that support. Like, yeah. What would be instead of the hey you're fine. Right. Like you said like a leading question. What could be alternative? But it's, you know, any of the listeners are wanting to truly, you know, be a support.

00:31:53:25 - 00:31:56:00
Speaker 3
What what would you say to them?

00:31:56:06 - 00:32:24:18
Speaker 4
Yeah, I would say, an open ended question. So, like, how are you doing? Like or even giving some permission to start with, like it's such an exciting time. But I know there's hard times too. Like, what's the hardest for you right now? Yeah. Like, if you ever want to talk about the hard parts, I'm here. You know, just to say, like, hey, I know that this is hard and I'm already putting that out there for you as as sort of like, I'm opening the door for you to talk about that stuff, and.

00:32:24:18 - 00:32:48:06
Speaker 3
It sounds like in it to kind of normalizing. Yeah, it's hard. And, hey, this is a safe space to be able to, like, say, and like you said, put down that facade that. Yeah, that's really stings. And like you said, I mean, sometimes, you know, I had another parent that chatted with me where, you know, that idea of there might be moments where you say, you know, I'm done.

00:32:48:06 - 00:33:01:26
Speaker 3
Like, I, I don't want this thing. Yeah. You know, please opt out. Yes. You know, from that you should be able to kind of create that. Hey, that's that's okay too. Yeah. That's. Yeah. So facts do come up because that's really difficult.

00:33:01:26 - 00:33:26:27
Speaker 4
Totally. Yeah. That's actually how I open my book is talking about like how I was just like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be a mom anymore. Yeah. That's where it had gotten to. And, yeah. And that's it's okay to have those thoughts. So, and also, I feel like some people say, like, I don't know, like, let's say they had a sister or friend who was a new parent and they weren't a parent themselves.

00:33:26:27 - 00:33:33:09
Speaker 4
And I think they feel like a little bit lost with like, I don't know how to support that person or ask.

00:33:33:15 - 00:33:34:10
Speaker 3
But okay.

00:33:34:10 - 00:33:46:32
Speaker 4
Anybody anybody can ask and listen, right? Yeah. So you don't have to be experienced or knowledgeable just to listen to the real experience. And that can make such a difference for somebody.

00:33:47:01 - 00:34:03:08
Speaker 3
And that's a great point because again, it's not necessarily that you have to relate to it, but just providing a that sounds like that open conversation, open, real conversation to, you know, be able to, to start it. Yeah. To provide that support.

00:34:03:08 - 00:34:04:28
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:34:04:30 - 00:34:16:26
Speaker 3
Are there any other pieces of support or resources that you found on your journey, that were just really kind of top notch or really helped kind of change your world?

00:34:20:21 - 00:34:30:03
Speaker 4
I'm trying to think for myself, I think my has been started, like plucking the books out of my hands because I was like.

00:34:30:06 - 00:34:31:17
Speaker 3
Okay, I'm a serial reader.

00:34:31:17 - 00:34:44:01
Speaker 4
And I would get really hung up on like, okay, we need to do everything that these three books say all at once to be good parents. You know, essentially, like I wasn't saying that's words, but that's kind of the structure that was forming in my mind.

00:34:44:01 - 00:34:44:16
Speaker 3
Absolutely.

00:34:44:16 - 00:34:48:31
Speaker 4
So you would just be like, no way to stop reading.

00:34:49:01 - 00:34:53:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, yeah. So I think, like.

00:34:53:11 - 00:35:13:11
Speaker 4
I was able to, like, open myself up to like, okay, I don't if I don't do it perfectly to the t how this book or this model or this person in the grocery store or I, you know, sister in law or whoever is, is like presenting how I need to parent. It's if that's not working for me, that's okay.

00:35:13:14 - 00:35:24:14
Speaker 4
I don't have to do it all perfectly. And in fact, it's more important to do it in a way that's authentic to me and is is actually, accessible in the moment. Yeah.

00:35:24:17 - 00:35:29:04
Speaker 3
Can you say more about that? Because I think that's huge. Yeah. So I mean.

00:35:29:12 - 00:35:57:30
Speaker 4
The thing I think about is like, there's there's just so many theories out there, like about parenting overall or feeding or, solid food feeding or sleep and it doesn't it, it's not all going to work for you. So, and if it doesn't, that's okay. It doesn't mean something bad about you or your family or whatever, you know, it's just that at that moment that's not working for you.

00:35:57:30 - 00:36:19:15
Speaker 4
So, and sometimes we don't have the energy for, like, a protocol for sleep training, you know, and. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Right. You can you can try again tomorrow or in a week or in a few months or never. And all of that's okay. Because you need to really just focus on what you have the capacity for, which is can be limited.

00:36:19:17 - 00:36:48:32
Speaker 3
Absolutely. In many phases of parenthood. So true. So it's a good reminder too. And what I really love about what you're saying is it sounds like it has this degree of flexibility as well as creativity. And like you said, being able to kind of figure out maybe your core, you know, those non-negotiables, those values, if you will, and really operating from there and not necessarily having to have it look like, like you said, step by step, oh, I read this in a book.

00:36:49:03 - 00:37:06:03
Speaker 3
I mean, I can absolutely relate to that. You know, I'm a rule follower. True. Yeah, yeah. And so like you said, you know, reading something like that and they're like, okay, first you do this and then this and then okay, I have to do it and it has to be yeah, one, two, three versus being able to have that, you know, creativity that flexibility.

00:37:06:03 - 00:37:09:32
Speaker 3
And how does it fit for me and what's realistic.

00:37:09:32 - 00:37:10:15
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:37:10:15 - 00:37:14:02
Speaker 3
And versus trying to go well the book said right.

00:37:14:04 - 00:37:17:18
Speaker 4
Yeah. The book said thousands of kids have done that.

00:37:17:21 - 00:37:18:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's going to.

00:37:18:12 - 00:37:38:16
Speaker 4
Work for me. And it's your kids too, you know, like, does your child is this working for your child? Like, is, you know, it just may not. Yeah. May not work. And so, or it may not work at that time. So it's just it's a, it's sort of a dance of like what is working for all of us right now.

00:37:38:16 - 00:37:51:06
Speaker 4
And, how can we just, like, make this easier for ourselves while we're also moving towards our own goals for what what parenthood and this, you know, upbringing for this child needs to work, right?

00:37:51:06 - 00:38:01:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you made a great point of just for that child because what works for one kiddo, may not work for the next one. Yes.

00:38:01:11 - 00:38:02:23
Speaker 4
In fact, it probably won't.

00:38:02:23 - 00:38:21:09
Speaker 3
Yes. Right. Because that's just. Okay. Yeah. So being able again to it's really exercising that it sounds like that flexibility that, that willingness to say it's okay if you're kind of coloring outside the lines of what it looks like. Yeah.

00:38:21:09 - 00:38:53:16
Speaker 4
And I think I liked what you said earlier about like core and values too, because I think that's really the most useful tool in parenting is like, evaluating what are my values and what is what do I want my life to look like and, and my family's life to look like and, and trying to align with that and that I feel like just makes things, a little easier for decision making and feels like it's never going to be easy because it's just not right.

00:38:53:18 - 00:38:54:22
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:38:54:24 - 00:38:57:02
Speaker 3
But it's it feels more authentic.

00:38:57:02 - 00:39:03:26
Speaker 4
And, there's a little more ease. I think when it's when it's coming from that place.

00:39:04:00 - 00:39:16:24
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I'm super curious. Was there a particular moment or was it a little bit of all of these moments that kind of was the catalyst for you then putting pen to paper? Yeah. And writing this book.

00:39:16:27 - 00:39:52:12
Speaker 4
So, so like I said, I started seeing moms and families in my therapy practice. I like, started getting educated and, I joined the board of a nonprofit, for supporting, perinatal mental health, the Postpartum Health Alliance and so all of these experiences, were so amazing, but also were sort of like supporting on the back end, like when you're struggling, we're, you know, providing support.

00:39:52:14 - 00:40:21:14
Speaker 4
So I just kept grappling with what, what can we do out front? What can we do? Preventatively. And to prepare parents more. So, I think and initially I had started a postpartum planning business. I was like, okay, this will be it. And, my, my beta client who was a friend, we had like, developed this plan of, like, what will your needs be?

00:40:21:14 - 00:40:41:02
Speaker 4
What support will you have here, the resources available to you? You know, what are the hardest parts going to be like phase by phase in, in new Parenthood. And then when she had her baby, she almost died. So I was just like, you know, I love planning.

00:40:41:05 - 00:40:42:23
Speaker 3
But it doesn't always.

00:40:42:23 - 00:41:05:25
Speaker 4
It just doesn't always work out. So maybe that's not the key. So, like, eventually what I came to, it's like it's a and something I can offer is education and and being real and getting out and saying like, hey, this is what parenthood looks like. And here are some skills and tools and resources that are available. So that's that's what this book is.

00:41:05:26 - 00:41:28:24
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I really I love that in it. You very much do start out with some of those really common myths and kind of bashing them, you know, to pieces, which I love, that that's my goal. You know, my, my, my, dream, my pipe dream. But, you know, and then being able to not only bash them but then offer kind of alternatives instead.

00:41:28:27 - 00:41:51:14
Speaker 3
And so I think that that if that was your goal, I think that it at least in my personal opinion, kind of right, right in line and being able to, like you said, kind of pre preemptively and preventatively kind of put some information out there that's a little bit more, realistic and not just kind of again, that's the sunshine and rainbows.

00:41:51:14 - 00:42:10:31
Speaker 3
Yeah. Because that's not it is. There's a lot of beautiful aspects to it. Absolutely. Yeah. But to kind of enter into, like you said, that mindset of oh, it's just going to be, you know, what I saw on TV or you know what? What my neighbor had, you know, their their kids are so great. It doesn't necessarily always work out that way.

00:42:10:31 - 00:42:27:29
Speaker 3
And there are a lot of things that that happen that are unplanned, like, it sounds like you experience with, with that client, that being a client, which is, you know, rocks our world. And if we are just trying to follow that's step by step plan that makes it really difficult, right?

00:42:27:31 - 00:42:34:22
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I think a lot of people encounter that at birth, but it goes the whole the whole way through. Right?

00:42:34:26 - 00:43:01:01
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean I just had a I had just had a wonderful, parent who was speaking about some of even the empty nest thing. Again, it's supposed to like ABC, right? This is this is what they're supposed to do, but it doesn't necessarily account for all of the real things that go along with it. And some of the grief and the and the new growing pains that you don't anticipate, you know, and that's not even on your radar when they're, you know, one to even ten.

00:43:01:03 - 00:43:07:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right. So absolutely. And I think that's so important just across the board when when you're talking about parenthood.

00:43:08:19 - 00:43:28:11
Speaker 3
So my my favorite question that I like to ask folks is that if you did have access to a Delorean, you go back. Is there anything specific that you would tell yourself to kind of prepare or to maybe even start shifting that mind a little bit sooner?

00:43:28:13 - 00:43:32:26
Speaker 4
I mean, I'd say I wrote your book.

00:43:32:29 - 00:43:35:02
Speaker 3
But I think that I think the.

00:43:35:02 - 00:43:37:01
Speaker 4
Bottom line is like.

00:43:37:04 - 00:43:40:03
Speaker 1
Hey, our our.

00:43:40:06 - 00:44:02:31
Speaker 4
Culture doesn't do a great job of talking about the hard parts. It's a really unique time to be a parent, where there's a lot of pressures and so it can feel very, it can feel really isolating if you're struggling, but it's you're not alone. And, and there will be really hard parts, but also there's things you can do.

00:44:03:01 - 00:44:13:30
Speaker 4
There's resources you can get. You can you can change things for yourself. But yeah, buckle up.

00:44:13:32 - 00:44:14:11
Speaker 1
Yes.

00:44:14:19 - 00:44:17:18
Speaker 3
It but it's.

00:44:17:21 - 00:44:36:20
Speaker 4
You know, it is it is like you were just saying, it is all those things that it is the beautiful and it is the amazing and, it, it is joyful, but that's just not the whole picture. Yeah, the whole picture. It's all of it. Just like life. Yeah. It's like all the emotions. All the.

00:44:36:20 - 00:44:46:32
Speaker 3
Experiences. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely I love that. So okay, I know you mentioned garnishing with bees all kind of up top. Do you put that on top of the cheese. Yeah I do I've.

00:44:46:32 - 00:44:49:02
Speaker 4
Done I just put it on top. Yeah. Okay.

00:44:49:04 - 00:44:52:17
Speaker 3
And then how long do you kind of bake these for.

00:44:52:19 - 00:45:09:18
Speaker 4
It's I think like 8 to 11 minutes just depending. So when we, when we cook at a higher temperature with the pizzas, it's a little bit less. But, I think, if I remember right, it's at 350. It's like 8 to 11 minutes.

00:45:09:24 - 00:45:27:08
Speaker 3
Okay. Perfect. Well, I am so excited to try this new recipe, and I'm so very, very grateful for you being willing to kind of help in this mission, to pull back that curtain and, and share some of the real life struggles that is kind of what happens in parenting.

00:45:27:08 - 00:45:27:28
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:45:27:31 - 00:45:36:09
Speaker 3
Think so. Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciated it. And thank you all for tuning in. We'll see you next time

00:45:37:12 - 00:45:49:23
Speaker 2
If you or anyone that you know is struggling with any of the topics that we discussed in today's episode, make sure to check out our show notes for support and resources. You can get help.

00:45:50:06 - 00:46:09:16
Speaker 1
Thanks again for joining us on today's episode of The Real Family Eats. If you're a parent ready to share your real life parenting story, make sure to reach out to us and our website. Found in the show notes. And that goes for today's recipe. Social media support and resources. All of that can be found in our show notes.

00:46:09:18 - 00:46:26:11
Speaker 1
So make sure to check them out and make sure to follow. Like, share, subscribe and stay up to date on all things the real family eats. I hope you'll join us next time for more food for thought and thoughtful food! Enjoy your eats!